Is Sammael Dead?

Posted by EagleEye Dragon on 23.01.01 00:00

Okay, please bear with me on this here...

Everyone here is making a single, fatal, assumption. That they were actually IN Shadar Logoth in the first place!

Let's look at a few inconsistancies.

First of all, Liah. He left her there to her fate WEEKS before. If Mashadar can kill so quickly, and leave no trace, how is it that Liah survived not only one night in Shadar Logoth, but many consecutive nights? Why didn't she leave? Find her way out somehow? Oh no... Liah was already dead, my friends.

Second, this stranger that helps Rand. I, too, believe it could have been Lews Therin. "How could that be," you ask? Simple... But please bear with me a little while longer...

Thirdly... Everyone is tripping up on the lack of use of any sort of the Power being used... True Power, saidin, saidar, or otherwise. Who says ANY of the Power was used to fake Sammael's death?

Remember, Rand was running after Sammael through the palace in Illian. Rand had already followed Sammael through reading the weaves of the gateways that Sammael had used previously, correct?

Okay, so imagine this scenario:

Sammael, being the master of defense that he is (who is also quite good at evaluating, planning, and scheming), knows that Rand is coming, and has a plan ready for use whenever he needs it. Rand, coming and triggering all of the wards around Illian brings Sammael to him. Sammael makes a statement about not wanting to trash what they're fighting over (I mean, who wants to fight over a rag doll, and end up ripping it in half just because both children are tugging on it so hard?)... To Rand, this fits with what Lews Therin has told him about Sammael, so he only grins, and (foolishly) follows Sammael through the gateway that Sammael had weaved.

Here's the trick though... Sammael weaved a gateway into Tel'aran'rhoid's version of Shadar Logoth. Rand andSammael fought in Tel'aran'rhoid , not in the real world. Liah was merely conjured up bySammael’s mind as a distraction (how convenient, eh?). As far as the "stranger that saved Rand" goes... That, indeed, was Lews Therin; conjured up by Rand's own mind, and dissapearing without a trace of the Power being used. (notice how what Rand did with the Power, the stranger damn near mirrored? Which is why when their balefire touched, it was such a shock.)

That, my friends, is why the Power couldn't be felt by Rand, both when the stranger left and when Sammael escaped.

You see, the "mist" that engulfed where Sammael was, was harmless. It was merely a normal mist, conjured up by Sammael's masterful control of Tel'aran'rhoid . Sammael pulled off a Houdini trick that fooled Rand into thinking he was dead, when he was actually just hiding in the harmless mists of his own mind. *smiles*

(For those of you that don't get it and need it spelled out... Rand thought that the mist was deadly... It wasn't... Sammael is alive.)

wotmania says: Hmmmmm... I cannot recall hearing anything like that before... It is certainly an interesting idea, though I am not sure how much I buy into it. I have said it before and I will say it again... Anything is possible with Jordan, and I feel like this is just the kind of twist he could throw at us...


Comments

Sammael is dead

Posted by marcus on 03.04.01 00:00
Greetings,

I just would like to clarify the question weather Sammeal is dead or not.

He is really really dead!

In a chat with Mr. Jordan himself this question came up and take a look at his answer...

Question from Arsolos: It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?

Robert Jordan: Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!

and don“t take my word for it... take a looksie here:

http://www.cnn.com/chat/transcripts/2000/12/12/jordan/index.html

Sincerly,
Marcus

Sammael is dead!

Posted by Arwen on 13.09.01 06:02
If you read one of the interviews posted under Articles you will see that Robert Jordan sais that Sammael is Dead, very dead, and is not comming back.

This is what he said:

Robert Jordan: Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!


Love Arwen

Who the hell is the slayer?

Posted by Arwen on 13.09.01 06:12
I know he is supposed to be connected somehow to rands father, and somehow to I think it was Lans brother, but I can't see somehow.
Could anyone please help me.
And I have some trouble understanding the family relations in Rands family, his mother was something high up in the system in Andor, and she is the mother of......Galad??? Is Rand and Elayne brother and sister, yack!????!!!
And she went to the waste and got pregnant with an aiel man, who runned away and got connected whit the slayer somehowe. I'm confused, yes.
Please help!!!

Interesting thought

Posted by Gandalv the Gray on 18.10.01 08:33
That idea certainly never struck me before. Very interesting. Not correct, though, as Sammael, at least currently is toast.


Gandalv the Gray

Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends
Faithful servant of the Creator
Bringer-back of Moiraine
Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin


i dont think so

Posted by couladin on 16.05.02 01:21
The weave for a gateway is different than the weave to the World of Dreams. Rand would hav known the difference since he has used both. I think that Sammael is really dead.


the real car'a'carn

what the junk?

Posted by DS-61-2, T.I.E. pilot on 17.08.02 14:31
Are you nuts? I mean don't you think rand would know he was walking into TAR? and he made his own weave to get there so he would not come out were sam was. as far as L.T.T. being there, that's just, well dumb cause it was mordin using the true power which is why it jolted. plus don't you think mordin would rather rand went fight sammy boy? as far a leih (sorry) but she is aiel. why she didn't leave I think is simple. She was poisoned like mat. she said the city was hers so she insane. all in all your thoery leaves much to be desired.

RE:Who the hell is the slayer?

Posted by Wicked Demenor on 23.04.06 13:11
Tgraine, Rand`s mother was queen of Andor. She married Taringil Damodred and Birthed Galad. She ran off to the waste when Gitara Moroso, Keeper of the Chronicals had a fortelling that she must become a Maiden of the Spear. When she disappeared her brother Luc fled to the blight out of devestation at the loss of his sister.

Lan`s aunt was a jealous woman who wanted her husband, Lan`s uncle to become king. She betrayed Malkier to the shadow, and fled with her young son Isam into the blight, never to be heard from again.

Slayer is a combination of Luc and Isam, created by ancient evil forces beyond our imagination.

Rand is Galad`s half brother, on his mother`s side. Taringail married Morgase, and birthed Elayne and Gawyn. Galad is THEIR half brother on their father`s side. They are related to Rand, but so distantly on their mothers` sides (their mother`s cousins were cousins with somebody else`s cousin, etc.) that the blood relation is too thin to matter genetically, or socially.


Lugh of the Vanth
Prince of Coolavin
Lord of the Darmods

"If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips."