Something has really been bothering me about the whole bit withMoiraine and the letter. Those of you have taken quantum mechanics,particle physics and have watched all three Back to the Future movies will be able to follow my logic.
It all started when Moiraine decided to go into the foggy city, or Rhuidean, to see her possible futures-- all three of them. Now, we all know that those futures were all related to the little scenario at the wagon with the doorway to the snake people.
Ok, here's where it gets disturbing. Knowing her fate, she wrote in her letter to Thom, that she needs saving and so on (I'm taking this for granted for my theory). Min's viewing saw him pull a blue stone out of a fire.
Ok, so here is the paradox: There is a little time loop that keeps repeating. Moiraine sees fate. Moiraine writes letter. Moiraine disappears. Thom reads letter. Thom saves her (this part doesn't matter).
Now let's go back to step 1. Moiraine sees fate. If she sees her fate and writes her letter in direct effect to this seeing of the future, isn't she altering what happens in the next loop? Wouldn't each time the loop is repeated it work differently?
Now all us time travelers know travelling back a billion years ago and sitting on a bush or something can make the present very different...like it raining donuts (Simpson's Halloween episode where Homer travels to prehistoric times with toaster is as good an example as any.) Anyhow, if Moiraine has changed the way things even slightly the way things turn out even the in the slightest, the next time the loop occurs the change would become the "original" and it would be changed somewhat again and again...
Now some of you might say that the letter being written does not constitute part of the loop. Maybe she didnt see herself write it and Thom's reading of the letter occurs after the end of the loop. Yes I agree, this is highly likely but the only reason she wrote the letter is because she saw her future. So the first time the loop runs, there is no letter, she sees whats may happen (3 mays) and she introduces the letter to the time line. Going back, she sees her fates again but this time around the letter is written into the future. Now this time line isaltered.
To illustrate I want you all to recall or see Back to the Future 2, where Doc Brown draws on the board a time line. The future is changed by the viewing of the fate and she now originally sees a slightly altered fate.
This has wide implications. If this logic holds it would keep repeating infinitely. This is a paradox. Time would be constantly changing in that little segment and so, the time line would be stuck there!
On an even broader note, all the wise ones have gone through this process. So, it might be possible for time not to change Moiraine, but sooner or later it will happen. And when it does the pattern itself will unravel like a big bolt balefire was aimed at it and the Dark One will die from loneliness outside this non-existant pattern with no one to harass. This is the last scene Robert Jordan has known that he will write sincethe beginning! There is no point in going on reading the series!......it will end the same.......oh Ilyenna plaese forgive me.......(receeds into the back of Buck's head weeping for his lostlife...)
Bad Ash says: Hmmm...well your theory does introduce a disturbing paradox, and a mild headache for that matter *reaches for Advil™) However, we must remember that Moiraine did have another reason for writing that letter: she had promised to tell Thom the truth about Owyn. Also, she knew she was going to die at the wagon, and yet did nothing for anyone to prevent it. Her selfless respect for the Dragon Reborn and for the Pattern leads me to believe that she wouldn't put anything in that letter that could alter time.
Comments
unfortunately, your theory involves no quantum mechanics or particle physics as you claimed. I was looking forward to a theory involving tunnelling or the uncertainty principle somehow, although I have no idea why that would come up.
Your theory solely involves time paradoxes anyone can understand, but I still disagree with your theory.
She goes to the Aelfinn regardless of the letter. She writes the letter to get rescued. The futures she sees show what happens if she does x. (If that is what she wrote at all, but why tell Thom?)
The first thing i'd like to state that ALL possible futures/pasts/nows exists simultaneuosly. You just have to find the right Portal stone...
I agree with Bad Ash and Roark, the letter probably has the names of the red sisters in it yet I do not believe it includes a plea for help, since Moraine does not know more than that Lanfear must die on this day. She does however "know my husband('s face) better than you do yours I'll wager"-or something very close to that, which probably is Thom...
Min talks about her viewing and she is NEVER wrong, so Moraine will be back someway or another, and then there is the "pulls a blue jewl out of the fire". Actually I just had an idea.
Egwene has Moraine's jewel. Egwene knows that somewhere somebody is riding to her rescue (future) from execution. There are indications that she might be heading for the heads-man (last lines of PoD). This saviour could be Thom whit a letter to prove Elaida stilled a man without a trial (breaking the law) thus getting her deposed (far flung I know) and/or stilled! I'd LOVE that. Making her beg for healing. Healing her weaker than most others...[evil grin].
Right after Moiraine left the FIRST doorway, in Tear, she told Thom that she would see him again, when she sent him w/ Nyn. and Elayne to Tanchico. The way she said it (can't quite rember) made it a statement of fact. She could not have said that unless she knew it was true. So far, she has not seen Thom again. I figure, something in the first doorway told her that Thom had something to do w/ her future. As the snakes (or were these the foxes? Whatever) don't lie, this must be true. Therefore, Thom must be coming to Moiraine's rescue, allowing her to see him again.
Alright now you must remember that this series is called the WHEEL OF TIME. and one of the main priciple's is that time moves in a wheel forever repeating it self, so therefore, ( and to some this is a BIG therefore), time never started it always exesited, a better way to say this is that in the possible futures Moriane say that she had to write the letters, it is a loop that never ends and has always happened.
As has been pointed out, we don't know exactly what was in the letter or for that fact what she saw in the "future". But ponder on this.....
Take into account Min's viewing abilities. As Min herself explains, her viewings ALWAYS come true, regardless of what people try to do to avoid it. It could be that the viewings that Moraine saw of her future work along the same lines. If that is so, then writing a letter, or jumping off a cliff, would make little difference to what is going to happen - it is a given that if she saw it, it will happen!
Since all of the Wise Ones since the destruction of Rhuidean and the loss of the Jenn Aiel have gone through the rings, having such time-altering effects would wreak havoc on pretty much everything. Think about it this way... suppose Wise One #1 sees something in the rings and changes her behavior/actions to prevent said events. This could mean that what Wise One #2 sees never even comes into play in reality. That doesn't happen (or if it did, it would probably have come up at some point, since there is some discussion on what Moiraine going into the rings means). Thus, it's more likely that Moiraine's action of writing her letter is part of the future she sees in the rings. Who knows... maybe she even saw herself writing the letter.
When did she write the bloody letter in the first place, she had little time in Tear, to write letter but she didn't give it to Thom, 'cause he might have done something in Tarabon that would but girls in danger and that's why Moiraine kept the letter for herself!!!
We know what she saw in the rings, but did she know that she will survive going throuhgt doorframe, probably 'cause she let Lan's bond go!!!
But what would have happend if DR would go throught that doorframe!!
I think that Mat will tell Tuon that (snakes) told him he will marry DotNM and she will stubbornly walk throught doorframe!!
Mat is denied,'cause you can go only ones but Thom will go with Mat (how, don't know) and Olver who is far from Mat will go throught he's been warned!!!
These Four will save Moiraine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right on man. I won't bother responding to this theory as the various comments that I have to make will probably end up being big enough to be a theory in it own right.
In fact I think I'll go write it now.
Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.
I think in the letter to Thom were the names of some Red Ajah members responsible for the gentling of Owen--Thom's nephew. MOiraine said that whatever was in the letter, she had promised to Thom--and she had promised him that if he went to Tanchico with Elayne and Nynaeve, then she would give him those names. She felt that they had done wrong and that he was skilled enough in the Game of Houses to make use of the names. It is possible that there was other stuff in the letter that we don't know about, but I'm pretty sure those names were in there.
What if (and I know i'll take some heat for this) Moiraine's future husband is NOT Thom, as is currently believed by most everyone? What if it's like, I dunno, one of the Fins or something? That would be interesting! Ha! But say yeah, the letter to Thom is the names of The AS responsible for gentling Owyn. Maybe the price Moi had to pay to get out of Finnland was marriage to one of them? who knows why...Mat's POV said they (second doorway finns) were all old and dusty and whatnot...so, say they needed some breeding stock or something? So, maybe she just thinks she knows the face of her husband, but it's really just the face of someone she has to sleep with. Moi is Carhienen and we all know how prim and proper they are--she probably equates sharing a bed with getting married. If an AS believes something is true, they can speak it, and she never actually SAID that she knew who her future husband would be...she said she wagered she knew. Well, i've stirred the pot enough for now, and I bravely await the oncoming firestorm! Tai'shar Wittenberg!!
This whole theory is based on Moirain changing the past/future by writing that letter. She did not, however, ever do such a thing. The way i see it, moiraine saw three different possible views of the future. Using that information, She wrote to Tom on how to save her (assuming that part). What your trying to say is that because of writing this letter she has now gone into the past and changed the fate she later sees, but no one has ever said that the Three Rings offer definite truth. Therefore, the letter never changed her fate. Side's, maybe she saw hereself writing the letter.
A logical progression on the timeline
The seperation narrowed down to a fine line
To blur the edges so they blend together properly
Take you on an audible odyssey
Its Goin Down
The letter is obviously her fulfilling her bargain with Thom. She told him that if he left Rand, she would see that he was given the names of the sisters whom "gentled" his nephew Owyn. That's the reason she wrote him the letter ... its just that plain simple, not some elaborate plan for her to see herself rescued. Moiraine was smarter than that ... she knew the prophecies couldn't be fulfilled until the were weaved out into the pattern, not just when Rand wanted to ... therefore, she also must have the logic to see that nothing she could do would change what the pattern weaves out. So if she's rescued, she's rescued ... if not, she gets some snake/fox tail for the next few centuries ....
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Sacred Pie
The time-loop business is beyond the scope of the story as it is presented. Yes, ages come and go and come again, but there is no time-travel action involved, no characters consciously maneuver among ages, and there are no in-age methods of pre-altering events, which is what the ‘Back to the Future’ analogy suggests.
Moiraine went into the ter’angreal in Tear and asked her three questions. One of her answers told her she had to go to Rhuidean, where she has her vision of three possible results of events on the docks, one involving her and Lanfear entering the other doorway from Rhuidean outside of Cairhen.
I do not believe her dead, since she clearly told Thom she would see him again just before she bargained with him to send him to Tanchico, and since Egwene’s dreams included things Moiraine has not yet done. Therefore, she released Lan’s bond on entering the doorway ter’angreal, or perhaps the doorway’s destruction blocked the bond, since the interior of the Tower of Ghenjei is apparently in another reality, even maybe another world, and with the loss of the connecting doorway the bond is useless. I prefer to think she released it, knowing what was going to happen. The only part of believing this that bothers me is to think that releasing the bond induced the same reaction in Lan as the trauma of his Aes Sedai’s death.
Moiraine’s letter certainly contains the information she promised Thom about those who led to Owyn’s death, but almost as certainly an expression of her affection for him. When Mat delivers the letter and asks who it is from, (can’t recall the exact wording and not having the books at hand) enemy, friend or lover, Thom’s cryptic and melancholy answer indicates something of all three (correct me if I’m wrong here, but that’s how I recall it). For Thom to express even the slightest consideration of Moiraine as lover is news at this point, but there is a previous thought from Thom’s POV that indicates an attraction to Moiraine, but is rejected because she is Aes Sedai, an aversion caused by his deep emotions about his nephew's treatment at the hands of Aes Sedai.
The timing of when Owyn was gentled seems to have been more than twenty years before Moiraine discovers Rand, and therefore before the Foretelling of his birth. This places it before Elaida becomes Morgase’s advisor as well. I am convinced that she led the crew who gentled Owyn illegally. Thom will arrive in Tar Valon just in time to prevent Egwene’s execution at Elaida’s order, fulfilling the her dream of someone rushing to save her from the headsman's axe. However, something else is still missing from this, because in the Tower’s current state, a letter from Moiraine will have little more validity than one from Siuan as evidence of Elaida's treachery, since they were tied together in their plots, as known to Elaida. We will see what is provided for this additional proof. Once Thom sees justice for Owyn’s destroyers and personal closure for his own guilt in this business, it will release him from his aversion to Aes Sedai, and duty will set him on the path to saving Moiraine.
Lord Savaunt replied to this thread with some similar suggestions, but denies that Moiraine would be likely to become involved with Thom, since she is supposedly a lesbian. (I can’t recall even a shaded reference to her and Siuan being ‘pillowfriends’, merely close friends as novices, but I accept that I might have missed it)
Call me Tim
Mabye the way that time is supposed to work is that she sends the letter. That would fit with why it was done in this loop.
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Two points:
1. Anything that Moiraine (or anyone else) does that affects the past does not change the course of time in any way. Anything that has happened happened: if it happened differently the present would be different, so as it isn't it didn't and won't. Time-travel results in no paradoxes. Killing one's grandfather is not a problem: you can try it, but either he wasn't your real grandfather, or it was just a flesh-wound. Attempting to change the past, or escape from prophecy, only aids it in coming about.
2. It is probably not a good idea to take all one's knowledge of quantum mechanics and paradoxical philosophy from the Back to the Future films. At the risk of being accused of Blasphemy, I would advance the opinion that they are, in fact FICTIONAL, and thus may not be entirely accurate when it comes to the mysteries of the universe
Call_Me_Tim: Thom was with Morgaise when Elayne was a little girl. He left suddenly because of Owyn. Thom never went back to Morgaise because she put a price on his head. Since Elayne is a year or two younger than Rand (and Rand is ~20), Owyn's gentling couldn't have been as long ago as 20 years.
It's time to plant my garden.
EntWife
the pillowfriends comment about moiraine and siuan was made in the prequel to wheel of time "New Spring"
just thought i would throw that in there for whoever it was that was wondering about it.
onnestabe
Owyn's death was about 13 years ago (the Vialness) elayne was about 3 to 6 years old
and the (not exact) wording between mat and thom was
mat: was that a another woman you tried to save?
thom: no that one was one i left.
the letter that moi sent contained only the names of the AS,
although (and this is irrelevent) i have seen a theory about the letter that thom recieved being a different letter
(something about the seals on the envelope)
I slept and dreamed that life was beauty. 
I awoke -- and found that life was duty. 
Ours not to reason why 
Ours but to do and die.
may you find a she that will bring you many cubs 
What if in her future Moirane saw that she wrote the letter and then did it. It would keep the same timeline
Sa mashiara desora jeade ain tai'ayendi.
Al'da'din desora misain ye.
where's the physics?