In Celtic myth, the character Gawain (Gawyn) was the son of Morgawse (Morgase in WOT).
In Arthurian legend, Lancelot (Mat) accidently kills Gareth while rescuing Guinevere (Egwene al' Vere).
Gawain has unreasoning fury and insists on fighting Lancelot (Mat) to the death. Lanceolot (Mat) gives Gawain (Gawyn) a head-wound from which he later dies. He is said to be buried at Camelot (Caemlyn).
In the tale of Arthur's last battle, Gawain's ghost appears to Arthur (al'Thor) in a dream (TAR) and warns him, in vain, to not fight Mordred (Moridin) until Lancelot (Mat or Perrin in this case) arrives with reinforcements.
Bad Ash says: WoT contains many parallels to legend and mythology of several different cultures. It is apparant that RJ drew from Arthurian legend when creating this world. However, I don't think he will follow the legend that closely. RJ tends more to use the characters in Arthurian legend as templates for creating his own, as he also does with Norse mythology, Christianity, even Frank Herbert's classic Dune saga, among others. Plus, what you're suggesting would tantamount to plagiarism.
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This would be plagiarism, and RJ is waaay above this. Besides, it would suck AND be untrue to the storyline. Mat is way down south. He is in no position to try to 'rescue' Egwene short of Travelling and he doesn't even know where she is. There's no way he's going to kill Gareth Bryne trying to rescue her; she would dissuade him of it long befors he killed him. There are too many prophecies to be fulfilled, also. Egwene must bond Gawyn and Siuan and Gareth must save each others lives. There is no goal it would accomplish in the storyline, it would not move it closer to Tarmon Gai'don. It would be senseless, plagiaristic and useless. >:I
Ruriha 
With all the different mythologies that Rj has merged together I don't think that he can follow all of them, to the letter at the same time with out contradicting things a lot.
Remeber that Rand Mat and Perrin among others have also been linked to norse mythologies.
Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.
Gareth was Gawain's younger brother. Hardly equivalent positions to Bryne and Gawyn. And in exactly what way does Mat correspond to Lancelot?
if Mat would be Lancelot, Egwene cant be Guinevere, because they loved each other, and she still loves gawyn.
Lancelot and Gawyn never fought against each other, they were both knights of Arthurs army and fought against Mordred, another son of Morgase.
Would this mean, Gawyn will be killed by who?
Rand or Galad?
Eolair 
There's no reason for Mat to kill (accidentally or otherwise) ANY of the good guys in the series. That would just be a stupid plot move on Jordan's part. He hasn't had any of them killed by Darkfriends or Forsaken; what's the point of harming TWO characters (both the murdered and the murderer, because of stigma) to coincide his story with a myth? (Incidentally, Gawaine was not killed by Lancelot; the head wound Lancelot gave him in France was opened by one of Mordred's men in the first battle Gawaine fought on his return to England. Also, while Gawaine warned Arthur about Mordred in a dream, the only dead people in TAR are Heroes, and I don't think Gawaine is one, and he was said to be buried in Dover, not Camelot (Wales). So even the parallels wouldn't work.) It's not really plagiarism, but it's pointless.
I can always admire a man who's willing to admit that they could be 180 degrees from being right . . .
I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it. -- Spike
OK, i have to admit that i don't know very much at all about Arthurian legend, so can anyone suggest any good websites / books that could basically help me out? I'd like to know some fairly detailed ones, rather than 'Arthur was a king who drew a sword out of a stone' sort of ones...
So, can anyone help???
I don't have a mythology website handy (though I recall something called mythology.net) but I can tell what myths the poster was thinking about. If that doesn't work, I'd just go to hotbot and search for "Arthurian Myth" and then search for "Sir Gawain" within the results.
Here's a quick summary:
Queen Guinevere is tried for adultery and sentenced to burn at the stake, when Lancelot finds out, comes for her and rescues her. In the process, he is forced to strike down multiple knights guarding the cart bringing Guinevere to the stake pole. At least one of them, Sir Gareth, dies of his wounds.
King Arthur finds out about this, and is honor-bound to declare war on Sir Lancelot. Gawain also finds about this, and is shocked--not only is Lancelot a friend of Gareth, but Lancelot is the very knight who knighted Sir Gareth. But regardless of why it happened, Gawain decides he must avenge the death of his brother Gareth.
During the war on Sir Lancelot, Gawain meets up with Lancelot and demands single combat with Lancelot. Lancelot is reluctant to do so, but as it involves fewer deaths on both sides, he agrees. Lancelot and Gawain fight three times (both of these guys are men of profound strength and skill) and Gawain dies of his wounds after the third fight.
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I'm HOPING that RJ doesn't decide he should do something like this, but after a few alterations, I can come up with this:
All this is over a woman and a wrongful death.
Lancelot wrongfully kills Sir Gareth when rescuing Guenevere. Gawyn is avenging the "deaths" of Elayne and Moragase.
Continuing the rough translation, since Lancelot was killed Sir Gawain, who wished to kill him, Rand may have to kill Gawyn, who wishes to kill him. Lancelot had no quarrel with Gawain, and was sorry for the murder of Sir Gareth. Rand has no quarrel with Gawyn, and knows had he not spent extra time at Tear he could've "saved" Morgase from her "murder" by Rahvin.
Everyone has to remember there are several legends about Lancelot and Gareth and Gawain and they are all different. So even if he did follow one of them we don't know which.
Rhianna Sedai
I'm afraid that I have to agree with Bad Ash on this one. I don't think that RJ would be that short on ideas that he would have to copy straight from another source. He may base his characters on other cultures, but he has a very original story.
I am getting sick and tired of people relating WoT to mythology. Yes, I know that RJ is influenced by Norse mythology and Anglo-Saxon myths. But come on, its like relating WoT to Tolkein. Thats just crazy.
Yes, and in that mythology Lancelot and Gunevere are tragically in love with each other.
Before I say anything else, I want to mention this:
I like mythology. When other kids were outside playing, I read Greek myths, and to this day I'm bitter over not knowing about Egyptian or Norse myths because I would've read up on those, too, and now have time to only vaguely acquaint myself with them. I occasionally read up on Kabbalic folklore and a few American Indian myths, too. I'm pretty familiar with Arthurian Mythology, though it's tough to find anything not written by the author of Le Morte de Arthur (forgive my spelling if it's off).
But I don't want mythology in Wheel of Time. I hate lazy thinking like that.
I don't want rand to lose a hand because, hey, he's Tyr! I hate it when people say that Perrin's Thor because both have a beard and hammer. I would get ticked off if Mat loses an eye because he has to be like Odin. I would seriously consider dropping the WoT books if that occured. It's not like there's a shortage of Fantasy books out there.
I think if Mat loses an eye it will have a higher purpose to the sotry than just keeping up with a set of myths.
I'm also one of those people that think it might mean for him to SACRIFICE (that means actually choose to giv up, rather than have someone get a lucky shot at his eye) half the light of the world to save the world.
They didn't say "You'll give up half the light of YOUR world" they said THE world. So if Tuon dies by a decision Mat has to make (which could mean the loss of half the worlds armies at Tarmon Gai'don) like say going after Rand over saving her, that'd make sense. If he has to let his luck altering abilities undo the cleansing of Saidin (or taint Saidar) then that makes sense.
If he just looses an eye because his bloody luck runs could in a single battle that doesn't fit very well. Even if that is what goes down then I still don't see RJ doing it because "well he is based on Odin, and Rand's gonna have to lose a hand, and Perrin will have to be turned into a silly comic book character that wears a ridiculous costume".
>0
Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.
To tell you the truth, I think a lot of Two Rivers folk are royalty. My take is that after the destruction of Manetherin and that huge final slaughter where the king dies and the queen gives her life to be able to channel Dragon-levels of One Power, that some of the nobles live. Not every knight and every lady died; there had to be someone or something they protected.
Unless I'm really drunk, Manetherin was something of a borderland, and if not, then that area influences them. Besides the Ogier and Aes Sedai, only the borderlanders and seemed to know of Manetherin, and Lan taught Rand _borderlander_ etiquette when he went to meet Siuan Sanche.
I think that Rand was wrong and the Saldeans were right when they kept referring to him as lord. I figure that the Two Rivers may have turned to farming and tabac (anyone love how the heroic Two Rivers folk farm tobacco, enemy of the universe?), but they kept their spirit and names.
Yes, that means I think that Nynaeve and Egwene are nobility, too.
I don't think RJ took anything but the name oof Gareth (and probably Gawyn as well) from Arthurian mythology. Gareth is a man of honor, accounted one of the greatest living generals,
has a horse named "Traveller" (just like RE Lee), demands ultimate authority on the conduct of war, and is leading the REBEL Aes Sedai into the north to take on the original Aes Sedai.
My bet would be that Bryne, unlike Lee, will win. The South will rise again (in Randland)
-Mowgli, the Last Prophet of Taimandredism
The problem for Gawain fighting Lancelot being Gawyn fighting Mat is the characterisation. Gawyn is Gawain by virtue of name. Lancelot is Gawyn by virtue of loving Egwene.
So we have a problem of Gawyn fighting Gawyn. I don't think RJ shall have this happen, unles it is in T'A'R, with the true Gawyn and a Forsaken pretender while Egwene is standing there ready to blast the other out of existence.
Slayer perhaps? Gawyn doesn't like Rand & Rand looks like Slayer. Maybe that is the answer. A nice way to kill off Slayer & fulfill a myth somewhat in one go.
Greyslayer
Protector of Aquatic Mamals
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but I'd like to make a small point... one that applies to probably most of the theories in the "Randland vs. Mythology" subject area.
I've seen a lot of posts saying how it would really suck if events in Randland occured exactly the way we would expect them to if they follow the events played out by their supposed mythological equivalents in Norse mythology, Arthurian legend, etc., and I agree that to see the same story put down before us would be a major let-down. I want to read something I've never read before, and I don't believe that RJ will let us down in this.
But...
Remember the name of this series? "The Wheel of Time." In the universe RJ has constructed, Time is a Wheel, and the myths and legends of one age are the reality of an age on the other side of the wheel. Many of the myths of Randland appear to be based on the reality of our present day. Remember Mosk and Merk, the two giants? Elsbet, Queen of All? Anla the Wise Counselor? Lenn, who flew to the Moon in the belly of a giant Eagle? All of these legends have supposed connections to our present-day reality. I'm sure you've all read a post somewhere with these connections made.
My point is, if there do happen to be some parralels with Norse mythology or Arthurian legend or anything else, don't think of it as "Uh-oh... RJ has run out of good ideas and is just stealing from mythology." Instead, look at it from his point of view. He needs to convince us that Randland is as much an influence on OUR mythology as WE are on theirs. Don't think that RJ is stealing from Arthurian legend, but think that he is showing you where that legend came from in the first place.
This still leaves a lot of wiggle room for him, as legends and myths can become quite twisted during the intervening ages... an original story can, and most assuredly will, be told here. But certain parallels should not only be accepted by the reader, we should expect them in order for this whole concept of a non-linear universe to be valid.
Any novel is just a snapshot in time... a recording of certain events in a certain order with a definite beginning and a definite end. But WoT tries to encompass more than that. It shows us how this snapshot in time affects, and is affected by, all other times and Ages as well.
I can definately see Mat as Lancelot, lancelot always seemed to be a rogue-ish character to me; and it has been suggested in other theories that Mat has a "thing" for egwene. However, I dont see how he'd have to kill Gareth in order to rescue Egwene. I suppose it could be accidental.. he'd somehow get to the Tower when the battle goes on, and as he tries to rescue Egwene he kills gareth by accident (Gareth is rushing toward egwene, sword bared, to kill someone who's about to stab her or something, and Mat assumes gareth is trying to kill her, so he kills gareth, or something). Of course, there is the viewing about gareth and siuan needing to save each other, but just because she had a viewing about that, doesnt mean they will save each other. These things go wrong, sometimes (min did have a viewing about the battle after elaida took over the tower).
Still, there's also really no reason for Gawyn to duel with Mat over that. I suppose that, unlike elayne, he never got to see that Gareth no longer cared about them like childrenl, and that since he couldnt get revenge on rand for his mother's "death", he wanted to get revenge for gareth's. Still, i think it's unlikely.
~CrazyCaleb~
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