Sammael is Slayer's Master

Posted by Elrahan on 22.05.01 00:00

In Winter's Heart we see that Slayer has been receiving orders from a male channeler who wishes to hide his identity. Now there are only two people who could possibly want to hide their identity to Slayer: Taim and Sammael.

I think that Taim is very unlikely since I doubt he even knows who Slayer is. Also I think that he is power hungry instead of a dark friend. If he were a dark friend then I do not think he would have tried to dissuade Rand at choosing Dashiva at Dumai's Wells. Also I don't think he would have been ignorant to Moridin's orders to have Rand killed (we see he is when he tells one of the rebel Asha'man to kill Rand).

This leaves Sammael. I never believed that Sammael was dead. I cannot believe that RJ would build up the character of Sammael so far and end it so unconvincingly. I believe that Sammael escaped Shadar Logoth in one of two ways. One would be to use the True Power. We have heard often that Sammael will pay large prices if it advantaged him. The other could be the many ter'angrael he seemed to have. One could have been used to create an illusion of himself that Rand 'killed.' And so Sammael, in my view, has been hiding from both
Rand and the forsaked. Why? Because it would give him a huge strategic advantage if he could work without anyone's knowledge.

And, as you can see this gives him the perfect reason to hide his face from Slayer yet still work on his plans. He hides his face from Slayer so that he would not tell the other forsaken, especially Moridin.

Well, this is my first post so don't be too scrupulous.

Raserei says: Two things.


1.) Sammael is dead, he said so himself in a chat discussion. "Sammael is toast." Verbatim.


2.) Taim is, becuae he had orders to kill Rand.


So, better luck next time.


Comments

Forsaken

Posted by magebeast on 22.05.01 14:46
I noticed while I was reading the part about the slayer in WH, that there are Chosen who don't channel. It says something about few of the chosen know where he lives, and none of the males who can channel. Why would he think about specifically males who can channel, if all the chosen can channel.

Another possibility

Posted by Call_me_Tim on 22.05.01 15:57
Sammael is definitely dead to balefire. Rand wouldn't be satisfied with just a high probability, and he is quite certain that when he moved the balefire stream from his mercy-killing of Liah, Sammael had no chance to get clear.

If Taim had Slayer at his disposal, he would have sent him to try any number of times before Far Madding. Besides, Taim is not of the Forsaken, and Slayer is certain that his "Patron of the moment" is a Chosen.

Moridin has been given all that the DO can give him up to this point, including control of Moghedien and Lanfear/Cyndane, as well as the title of Nae'blis, at least temporarily. Why not access to Slayer?

Magebeast posted the suggestion that not all male Chosen can channel, based on Slayer's thoughts at the end of Out of Thin Air. But the exact passage reads; "Few save the Chosen knew how to reach him, and none of the men among those few could channel, or would have dared trying to command him." This could be rewritten to say that OTHER THAN the Chosen, only a few knew how to reach him, and among the men of those few, none could channel. It doesn't say that there are male Forsaken who cannot channel, but that non-Forsaken males who can find him can't channel, and wouldn't dare attempt to order him around.


Call me Tim

Quick comment

Posted by Alcair ashan on 23.05.01 09:18
Quick question to Raserei, how could Sammael chat when he is dead according to himself?
"Sammael is dead, he said so himself in a chat discussion. "Sammael is toast." Verbatim. "


Alcair ashan
Lurker extraordinary

Taim

Posted by Apollyon on 30.05.01 15:27
I was wondering...does Taim have to be a Darkfriend? I mean, he probably is, but perhaps he is just jealous of Rand, and thinks that if he (Rand) is dead then Taim could become the Dragon Reborn. Maybe he just wants power.

question

Posted by kane on 15.06.01 15:09
did not Mr Jordan say that Sammael was gone inn a intervju??
think to remember that.


" cogito ergo doleo."
Veni, vidi, volo in domum redire
Ecce potestas casei.

weather notes

Posted by blarg on 18.06.01 07:16
i very nifty bit of evidence that i think is being left out here is the weather of the area, shown through the gateway after Slayer's Master leaves.
the heavy snow points to something around Caemlyn in my opinion, which would be another point for someone who is not Sammael.

blarg

sammael or demandred?

Posted by mierin sedai on 15.07.01 07:48
where did you get that from?
Have I missed something important again?

Isn't Ishamael/Moridin an option... thinking as I am that he must have had a hand in making slayer in the firsk place, I can't really buy your theory


Magnus Alexander corpore parvus erat
Dissenting voice of wotmania
Frightfully stubborn pacifist

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent

Sammael dead

Posted by joe bloggs on 22.03.02 10:52
I read that interview where Jordan says Sammael is toast. If he had said RAFO- it would kinda give the game away.

I reckon he's lying his beard off!

Taim is Sammael- try reading all the relevant sections with that supposition and the whole book makes alot more sense.

P>S> I'll be relly pissed off if I'm wrong.

Few Problems

Posted by The Blademaster #3 on 20.04.04 09:00
1st: Isam said that he doesn't work for any one person (except the dark one)
2nd Sammael wouldn't have run if he were still alive. He would have taken the chance and tried to kill Rand.
Thats all i have for now.




I suspected it might come to you and me. You are young. Let us see what is required to earn the heron on this side of the ocean.
Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death... -Lews Therin Telamon

Sammael could be alive...

Posted by napoleonCoplin on 19.08.05 01:26
But i'll offer ten to 1 odds on it. The True Power thing is possible, but highly unlikely. The ter'angreal thing wouldn't work at all: he would need to channel, which Rand said he didn't, and if he tried to invert the weaves, the extra effort and time needed would have allowed mashadar to reach him. Oh, and anyone who says Rand Balefired Sammael is wrong: mashadar got him (supposedly: he was gone when Rand looked). I think it says somewhere that mashadar eats the soul like machim Shin does, which would explain why he hasn't been brought backdespite dying by a means other than Balefire.


It's not apples and oranges, but no one paying attention could compare these apples without noticing:
(a) one is 12 times bigger and
(b) both of them are rutabagas.

I disagree

Posted by HoboBBJ on 06.03.06 16:50
I don't know about you but i am positive that Sammael died. I think i remember it saying that Rand felt saidan being channeled, enough to weave a gateway, then cut off suddenly.


"Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." -G. K. Chesterton

My naked walrus is on fire.

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