The Last Day of the Last Battle

I had thought that the "On the last day" was simply Rand completing the Aiel oath thingy that he was dredging up from the core of his being. I don't think it has anything to do with the use of that sa'angreal. However, I think you're right in saying that it will be used at the last battle. Why wouldn't Rand use such a powerful weapon?


cynic79

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NO ONE LIKES HER ANYWAY


Hearts, stars, and horsheshoes,
Clovers and blue moons,
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If you go back in time and kill yourself, what would happen?

Is that a penis in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me.

. I don't know if that part really refers to the last battle since it was part of that Aiel saying which described for how long they would fight. However i find it extreme possible that these two Sa'angreals will be used in the last battle.

Remember, in the Age of Legends the Choedan Kal were made specifically to imprison the Dark One. The women sat on their hands, though, and wouldn't complete that. Therefore Lews Therin took a desperate and successful (but costly) gambit and put into effect his plan to seal the bore. Unfortunately, no females accompanied him and thus he was unable to properly align the seven seals. I propose that the Choedan Kal will finally be used to complete their original purpose.

It could certainly be done, Lanfear told us that she and Rand could use those and probably challenge even the creator.

And a prehumous comment: if I don't say this inevitably somebody will mention it thinking that they're smart. Two of the linking Ter'Angreal were melted in the Cleansing, NOT the Choedan Kal (as far as we know). Lanfear made it perfectly clear that other Ter'Angreal links were made to the Choedan Kal that were lost or destroyed.


Your.Master

I think that episode with the sa'angreal, was more of his heritage coming out. Like the thing with Mat going on constantly. The words come to him because he is Aiel.

The Choedan Kal (the access keys) are the linking ter'angreal, not the sa'angreal themselves. I don't think you can destroy those sa'angreal unless you overload them or destroy the world around them.

And although Rand will probably use the sa'angreal, mumbling the quote was either recalling his Aiel ancestors, or physically remembering when Loial first met him and confused him for an Aiel.

Just my 2 coppers.


Timekeeper
Guardian of the Wheel

--The Creator made women to please the eye and trouble the mind.
--Kittens tangle your yarn, men tangle your wits, and it's simple as breathing for both.

I agree with the idea of using the Choedan Kal. I believe the current seal over the bore will be purposly destroyed.
This is because of something Fel said about taking away debree or something along those lines and I believe he found
out how to seal the Dark One the way it was sealed before the AOL. Another thing I believe will play a large part
in the Last Battle will be the Eye of the World. Here is something to consider if the Choedan Kal exists finished
in the present and Lanfear Knows of it being completed that means they were made before the Dark One's prison
was sealed (All the forsaken but Ishamael were bound, so how did she know they were finished?). I also highly doubt they
would have been finished after the taint was on the male half. There is statements saying that the Aes Sedai weren't ready
to use the Choedan Kal and the female Aes Sedai kept to the idea of using it, but the male Aes Sedai following LTT didn't
believe there was enough time to finish what was needed so they went to seal the bore. What wasn't finished yet, if the
Choedan Kal exists today? I believe what wasn't finished was the Eye of the World. The eye wasn't made until after
the taint was on Saidan. Here are some quotes from the Eye of the World.

Moraine speaking about the Eye "No one living knows. Neither the how, nor more of the why than that it would be needed
one day, and that that need would be the greatest and the most desperate the world had faced to that time. Perhaps ever would face."

Moraine: "I begin to wonder, The Eye of the World was made against the greates need the world would ever face, but was it made for the use to which... we... put it, or to
guard these things? ( things being the horn, a seal, and the banner).

I believe the greatest need would be during the last battle to perhaps help seal the Dark One's prison the way
it was before it was drilled into.
Throughout the book Rand is continually told that the eye will not serve him. Loial says that that he heard
the Dark One wants to blind the Eye of the World. The Dark One is also called sightblinder. This means that
the Dark One absolutly doesn't want the Eye of the World to be used. The number one reason could be that if Rand figures
out how to make it "serve him" he can imprison the Dark One.

There is more I could add, but this is already way, way too long. Maybe I'll spend some time posting it in the theory section.
Just one more thing. Loial also asks Moraine something along the lines of, "can the Dark One do that blind the eye
of the great serpant? There are parts in later books showing Rand blindfolded and there is also an eye connected to mat in min's
viewing. (If Mat's "give up half the light of the world to save the world is connected to the eye viewing than it would
make some sense... Eye of the world.... Light of the world). I think the blindfold, Mat and eye, sightblinder could be connected to
the Eye of the World and what it could be used for in the Last Battle. Even if the blindfold over Rand's eyes and the eye with Mat
has no connection to the Eye of the World, I believe almost certainly that the Eye plays a bigger role than what it
appears to in the end of Book one.

We know when the Eye was made! recall Rand's journey in the Rhuidean Ter'Angreal, his ancestor meets Aes Sedai who are preparing something, with "young males, not yet touched by 'it'... They must do it before it is too late... it will be needed in the future..." Those are not the words, but the meaning is the same: the Eye was made during the Breaking, by males who sacrificed themselves so the Eye would be pure, exempt of the Taint.


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Reread what I wrote. I said that the Choedan Kal was made before the taint. The eye was made
after the taint was on Saidan. That is why the Aes Sedai had to work so hard so the taint was not on the eye.
If you reread what it says in the books when Rand is seeing through the eyes of his ancestors the Aes Sedai are
saying "The world rests on this! The future! The wheel itself!" "They are young and inexperienced, but barely touched by the taint"
In the "Eye of the World" Moraine says something about the sacrafice they paid to keep
the Eye free from the taint (Both the women and male Aes Sedai died). So reread
what I wrote, I never said that we didn't know when the Eye was made. I said we KNOW when the Eye and the
Choedan Kal were made.

What if Rand used the Choedan Kal without the access Ter'Angrael? He would probably be burned to a crisp and take out nearby mountains/cities/continents in the process. Wouldn't that be a cute way to end the series?

Rand screws the pooch and kills off everyone by using the big CK with now key to buffer him.

Then Shaitan takes over and has the black Ajah organize broadway style musicals in the street with the children of dark.

Mat decides that he's so depressed that his best buddy is dead that he's gonna become a drunk. Then he realizes that he'd have to live with comparisons to the Thom who does it sooo much better. Then he decides to get addicted to super kaf.

Perrin realizes that Wolves should be the dominant and goes on a killing spree. Faile deciding that she loves her husband so much, decides to raise sheep as livestock so that the wolves can be well fed.

Elaida a Roihan and Verin Mathwin decide to devote themselves to starting a new ajah since the Reds are now perfectly usless. Then they remember that the dark one is in charge now and decide to go to Ebou Dar and work as strippers.


Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.

I say that Rand, Logain, Narishma or someother respected Ashaman shall have control of a circle of Amen & Asedai to wield the big saangreals. For the other one a woman would lead the combined circle.

If it was some other ashaman, that would mean there is Logain using Callandor, 2 circles using the CK & Rand doing what ever he bloody well feels like during TG.

Good Odds, the way the Forsaken are dropping like flys & becoming Morindid's pets.

Keeper of Aquatic Mammals

is used up, it was only lots of Saidin brought into this world from whatever dimention it exists in. there's no need for the Eye now that Sidin has been cleansed...

Do you agree with in saying that rand with the Choedan khal will instead of reaseling the dark one forever will simply kill him. It is possible as Lanfear said because before the breaking they were never testeded and lews therin would have sealed the dark one with his own power. Lews therins power compared to the choedan khal is infinitely minute as they said kinda.
So Rand Could effectively Kill the Dark One for good and bring about the new age of paradise or whatever as the tinkers talked about instead of resealing him again and haveing another Lews thering/Rand al'Thor reborn and reseal the dark one again.
That is how i believe that it will finish as

Okay this is in response to the whole The Last Day of the Last Battle post by saion naroke. While commend the use of the phrase "El Roberto" I just cant agree with the theory and here is why.
Okay so he goes into trance infront of the giant Sa'angreal and says "Power filled him.
He was one with the sphere...
into the shadow with teeth bared...
to spit in sightblinder's eye...
Power to break the world."
Ending with "ON THE LAST DAY" (I cut and pasted the quote from saion narokes post so if they are wrong...)
Okay at this point in the series Rand is afraid of the one power and you find out that when he gets Callandor and the Keys that he is afraid of that much power fear of what he would do with it(a good example of something that a young Rand would be afraid of is breaking the world again) so I feel that explains that part.
In reference to the spit in sightblinders eye on the last day... part that is supposed to clue us into Rand's Aiel heritage which has been being hinted at but not yet laid out. I feel it has nothing to do with prophecy... Dissagree if you want that is what makes this fun.



Mjolner


Somewhere, something incredible
is waiting to be known.

Someone may indeed use these in the last battle but it will be Callandor that Rand uses on that day. Rand will use Callandors fatal (and I mean fatal literaly) flaw to overdraw on the power through the third most powerfull weapon ever made. Only this will give him the power to reform the dark ones prison.

With the True Power a very real danger to Rand and nothing like it for the good guys to use. I believe that the Eye of the World is more than just a huge well of saidan, free from the taint even though it is now empty. With little or no proof except that only those with great need can find it and the jumara not yet maturing, I think Rand and his fellows will have to go find the Eye and open the thing! He'll need to use immense force to open it as it's a ter'angreal that allows male channelers to wield the light! There's all this talk about the "light", the uncanny link between eye and light, and how the amount of light Rand will need will blind the eye of the world because it will never open again. Hence the double dawn since the strike will be made at dawn the sun rising in the East and the "light" from the west of TG. Rand will also be blinded or get a cyclops from X-men problem = Rand blindfolded.

Full of holes, a couple of leaps of faith and plenty of things that would have to happen still, but RJ's still got two books. It COULD happen.


If you could choose the world you lived in?

- servant of -

The Choeden Kal are the huge sa'angreals. The smaller ones are the access keys. And wasn't the female access key destroyed at the end of Winter's Heart? If so, the female Choden Kal is basically useless unless Elayne discovers how to make another female access key (highly unlikely).

Wasn't it the male one that was destroyed? Or do i have to reread for like the 6th time? And even if elayne can make a new one, would she want to?


ph33r d4 133t!
ph33r m4 4ut|-|ority!

It was the female access key destroyed (left on the ground to be picked up by an unwary female who does not know the danger).

However, there were more than 2 access keys made, so let`s start looking for them, before the bad ones find them.

The Eye of the World has been used up, and likely overrun by the Blight.


jofraz

Egwene fanatic
"Elaida will be removed one way or another".
The seeds are being planted and some have sprouted.
The end is near

Note: If the choedan kal together would be powerful enough to hold the dark one - look at what you're talking about! A whole out of this world being as powerful as the creator! The Source drives the pattern, and the choedan kal in the pattern uses the source, so it is possible that enough of the source can be handled to do something to the two celestrial beings creator and DO. Makes more sense than the source being made by the creator (something made inside a pattern cannot harm its creator with that much ease). ANYWAYS

RJ mentioned in the Guide that saidin and saidar woven together would be ten times as more powerful as apart. So based on that word for word, the male choedan kal could not hold the DO in his prison ALONE.

Another thing to consider if the sharing of the choedan kal. You know how Asmo and Ran each got half of the male twin when they touched the ter'angreal that LETS THEM TOUCH the male sa'angreal. So, if a giant circle of perhaps over...what was the number? 72? well, half male half female is strongest, but...just listen. If the least amount of males in a circle with the largest amount of females in it...the females could divide the flow almost 1/50th for each person, and the controller of the circle could use it as one flow. Might provide safety. Alternatively we could grab every single woman in the tower, sea folk, aiel, and let them all touch it - much less flow each handles, but hundred's of flows.

Hmmm....i will post this as a theory later!

Just to help decide for those people who think the male ter'angreal was the one broken at the cleansing, I quoted it down here.

Cadsuane let the thing that had been a ter'angreal drop to the ground. It could no longer be called a statue of a woman. The face was as wisely serene as ever, but the face was broken in two and lumpy like bubbled wax where one side had melted, including the arm that had held the crystal sphere now lying in shattered fragments around the ruined thing. The male figure was hole, and already tucked away in her saddlebags. Callandor was secured, too. It was best not to leave temptation on the open hilltop.

Hope that helps.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
And tore the world asunder.

That the female CK was indeed destroyed during the cleansing. Both the access key and the "parent" statue were destroyed. Anyways, still an interesting theory.


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