The Seals and how the Taint is breaking them

Posted by shakester29 on 07.09.01 22:18

This might be kind of convoluted, but bear with me. We all know that when Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions sealed the Bore at the end of the War of Power, using a weave of saidin to lock him in. These weaves of saidin were tied to specialized ter'angreal, the cuendillar seals. (They are ter'angreal, says so in the guide). Immediately afterwards, saidin was tainted. What if the weaves binding the Dark One were tainted as well? We all know that the Ways were eventually corrupted by the Taint (although they WERE created after the taint appeared) so whats to say that weaves created while saidin was still clean would not also have been corrupted? The Dark One's counterstroke came right as the Bore was closing, maybe even while the Hundred Companions were weaving the seal. He could very easily have tainted saidin before the completion of his prison, thus tainting the weaves partially or wholly. This would explain why the seals have been slowly breaking. Now here's another question: Why does Lews Therin always rave about breaking the seals? You could argue that he's mad, but he seems odd that the seals should always be singled out for such a reception. What if the seals, the focus for the seal on the Bore, are (were) also the focus for the Taint? This would explain Lews Therin's fanatical desire to break them, as they are subjecting him to continued exposure to the Taint (through Rand). So now that the Taint has been cleansed, one of two things has happened: a., the seals have broken and the Dark One is free once more, b., the remaining seals are whole, the taint has been cleansed from them, and they are now restored to their cuendillar state. On a side note, because the seals are ter'angreal (you can look it up), Elayne or one of the Asha'man could simply use ter'angreal making skills (I think its been agreed that that's Aligning the Matrix ) to align the matrices and restore them to their AOL status.

Roonas says: Well, on the whole I would have to disagree with your statement on the Taint being focused through the cuellindar seals. They were ter'angreal, I agree, but they were stand alone, not needing channeling to be continuously doing their job, they were merely the focus for the weaves placed to seal the bore. If it was the way you describe, someone would have to be channeling non-stop 24/7 to keep the Dark One sealed. I believe the weaves were either tied off, or were merely done once and that was all that was necessary to maintain them. And the fact that they seem to be breaking now is merely a testament to the ramshackle way that they were placed (without Saidar), not because the weave of Saidin used was tainted. Thus, the idea that the taint was being perpetuated through them is false in my eyes. The counter stroke was a one time slam against Saidan that tainted it, and therefore, made the "pool" of Saidan vile, it also does not need to be tended by the Dark One for the taint to be maintained, and is therefore not focused through the seals. As to Lews Therin's rantings on breaking them, I believe that to be more in line with his nihilistic views on destroying or breaking the world again and killing everyone. I do not believe he sees the seals as the focus of the taint.


Also, as a note to your side note about aligning the matrices:I do not think that realigning the matrices on the seals would restore them to their previous status. How would they be replaced into their "places" on the bore once they were "realigned"? It took the Hundred Companions in total to do it, and it was barely done, would remaking the seals really just automatically fix the bore. I do not believe so, but that is another statement for another time.


Comments

This makes sense!

Posted by Boris Aes Sedai on 08.09.01 07:08
It seems a good idea that the seals are ter'angreal that maintain the weaves on the DO's prision. Using heartstone to maintain the weaves would allow the weave to be maintained forever, not like most tied off weaves that dispell over time. The DO's counterstroke must have occurred before the seal was fully in place, because else he couldn't reach to taint saidin. The seals would thus weaken through the taint, and only something from the Dark One would break heartstone.

besides...

Posted by daidaishar on 08.09.01 18:04
I realy don't think Robert Jordan is going to have the seals fixed. There have already been numerous complaints about how long it is taking to get to the last battle, emagine what would happen if they just fix the seals and the Last Battle never comes.

On Roonas Comment

Posted by Isam on 10.09.01 07:10
Lews Therin wants to break the seals so that the DO can be properly imprisoned. As Fel's note says in LoC, one "Must clear away the rubble before you can build."

How the taint WAS breaking them...

Posted by Call_me_Tim on 10.09.01 10:21
If the taint was damaging the seals, and I personally agree that their slow degeneration is due to the taint, then that has been halted. Any remaining intact seals will hold, but no broken ones will be restored.

However, the real question is how much that matters now. It is well agreed that the seals are the subject of Herid Fel's comment that you must clear away rubble before you can build. (Of course there is a side-fullfilment of this statement with the destruction of Shadar Logoth) And yet Rand, who is in possession of two (3?) seals is in no hurry to destroy them. That he saw it necessary to cleanse saidin first is logical, so perhaps that is something he will consider soon. Perhaps he senses some other tasks must be accomplished before breaking the seals and dealing with the DO's strongest onslaught while attempting to properly seal the prison. Perhaps he wants all of the Forsaken dealt with first. Or, perhaps he believes that the seals aren't very important now, with the taint gone and all of the Forsaken freed from their prison, and (so he believes), a good half of them dead.




Call me Tim

To Roonas-

Posted by shakester29 on 10.09.01 19:13
If the seals are ter'angreal used to tie down the weaves, as they are, then it stands to reason that they could have been tying down the taint as well, causing their slow degeneration. Remember, in AOL it may have been _better_ to do things with saidin and saidar, but that doesn't mean that something done with only saidin or saidar was defective- the seals are breaking down due to the taint, not the abscence of saidar.

Ways

Posted by Jälä on 14.09.01 07:01

Ways were Tainted because Shadar Logoth!!!!!!!!!!!!

The One Power

Posted by RAAJ on 29.12.01 01:50
I feel that the taint is directly related to the seals. The one power is Saidin/Saidar together. Remember all the greatest works of AOL were done by combining. My thought then is that there are hooks that are meant to grasp the other power and create a fuller and more complete matrix. When the weaves were laid over the bore the DO was then able to exert his "true power" back through the seals and attach it to Saidin because Saidin is designed to be joined to another power and there was no Saidar to protect those connections. But it would only be an oily overlay because the "true power" is not the perfect match that Saidar is. Since the DO's is decay and death the power flowing inside (heartstone is resistant to outside forces) would gradually destroy the matrix of the heartstone from within. The other point is that since they aren't a perfect match the seals are used to keep the "true Power" focused and in contact with Saidin. In which case destroying them would disrupt the taint possibly permanently.

Nope.

Posted by Batosai on 16.08.03 22:28
There is no way the taint on saidin could wear away the seals. If that were the case, every saidin-tied ter'angreal made of cuendillar would have worn away long ago. What on Earth do you think the Choken Dal are made of? Granite? And don't tell me both are linked by saidar. That's just silly.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world assunder