Eye on a Balance Scale as at Winters Heart

Posted by MattTaz on 06.11.01 00:00

a) Finns - Give up Half the Light of the World to save the World
b) Egwene - Weighing two Aes Sedai's on a huge Balance Scale. On his decision lay something vast, the world perhaps
c) Min - Eye on a Balance Scale
d) Egwene - Placing his left eye on a Balance Scale

It is most likely that all of the above prophecies are connected to the same event.

As at WH the only thing Mat has that could save the world is the HoV.
It is thought that Mat may give up an eye to lead the Seanchan. But considering Mat has kidnapped Tuon, the simple way to bind the Seanchan would be to take Tuon to Illian and use her as a hostage to stop the invasion. Suroth being arrested by the yellow haired Seeker when Tuon, Eaginin & Bayle disappear on the same night should leave them leaderless and the suldam secret and the Shaido Wise Ones are both going to hurt them bad. Note Mat also has a destiny with Illian to rally the forces of light - as per the HoV legend.

I put into an earlier post that the "unstained Tower will break and bend to the forgotten sign". Some said this was Verin, Kurina & Co swearing fealty to Rand, but I doubt Verin & Co could be descibed as an 'unstained tower'. This must be the White Tower. And for the White Tower to bend to Rand, this must mean they have been dealt a huge blow.

The DO's plan is to sow chaos, mainly the Seanchan (Semirhage) v The White Tower (Mesaana). (Rememer what Demandred said and Egwene also had a dream about this).
Once the Westlands has been united, only then will the Trollocs move southward. The borderlands are finished as those idiots have taken 200,000 soldiers south. After watching news of the recent wars we know that strategic weapons are hit first when a war begins. The next target must be the White Tower.

When the WT is attacked I think Egwene will send Siuan (who is only 1 of 2 people who know where the HoV is) south to find Mat. Siuan is one of the Aes Sedai's on a balance scale. (She also has been told by Min not to be apart from Gareth Bryne for too long or they will both die - this adds to the suspense). At the same moment the Black Tower or the Two Rivers is attacked. Please note Bran Al'vere as the Mayor wears a 'balance scale' medallion as a sign of his office. Mat will then have to chose between two targets, he can only defend one at a time.

The White Tower and the Black Tower - Giving up Half the Light of the World
The White Tower and the Two Rivers - Egwene & Bode or his Mother, Father and Sister.

A tough decision.

This theory is as at WH. Obviously all could change in Book 10. But at the moment this is my best guess.



Comments

two Aes Sedai....

Posted by Narishma(is badass) on 06.11.01 01:45
I always took the two Aes Sedai on the scales to be the two Mat rescues in Ebu Dar. If Mat hadn't agreed to help them escape he wouldn't have been in the palace at the time and therefore would not have run into Tuon and had to take her captive. Tuon will help him towards the second part of Mat's prophecies which will be to "give up half the light.." That in itself seems to explain why the two Aes Sedai that Mat decides to save are such a monumental decision.

WOW

Posted by Damael on 06.11.01 06:00
This is possibly the BEST theory i've ever read here...

GREAT work dude...


Damael
"Women love us for our defects. If we have enough of them, they will forgive us everything, even our gigantic intellects". - Oscar Wilde

You didn't mention Egwene's dream with Mat bleeding

Posted by RabidWombat on 06.11.01 09:24
You didn't mention Egwene's dream with Mat's face bleeding and his hat drawn low. Something I didn't notice until now was in that dream it mentions that this is happening while Thom is pulling Moiraine's jewel from the fire. In other words the visions about Thom and Mat are from the same dream! They are therefore connected in some way. Any chance there is another doorway to the the land of the Finns in Ebou Dar .


RabidWombat

Let the Lord of Rambling Thoughts rule

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Someone stole all my cookies

Seriously

Posted by Three In A Boat on 06.11.01 12:04
The unstained tower bending knee has already happened. read the end of LoC again, Jordan basically tells us that what has happened is referring to the prophecy, he's never been more clear about any part of the Prophecies of the Dragon.

It is possible

Posted by mauladala on 06.11.01 14:12
that the unstained tower refers to a reunited tower. Not all of the Aes Sedai from Salidar bent knee to Rand, including Egwene. The Aes Sedai with Egwene are not a part of the tower YET, and RJ has had made it clear that that is the destination and the desire of the "rebel" Aes Sedai. It seems that only when the Tower is reunited in TV will we have an "unstained tower." I don't believe it is clear that this has already occurred. A few Aes Sedai swearin fealty, without the addition of the Amyrlin, do not represent an unstained tower bending knee.


-mauladala

"I'd just as assume kiss a Wookie!"
"I can arrange that! You could USE a good kiss."

A quote

Posted by Three In A Boat on 06.11.01 15:52
from LoC. SPOILER

"On a day of fire and blood, a tattered banner waved above Dumai's Well's, bearing the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai.
On a day of fire and blood and the One Power, as prophecy had suggested, the unstained tower, broken, bent knee to the forgotten sign."

As I've said before, it's possibly the only instance thus far where Jordan has actually pointed out to us what part pf the prophecy means.

Yes...

Posted by mauladala on 07.11.01 09:30
You are right Three... in fact I just read the same quote last night.


-mauladala

"I'd just as assume kiss a Wookie!"
"I can arrange that! You could USE a good kiss."

Unstained Tower

Posted by Talmanes on 07.11.01 21:06
"The Unstained Tower will break and bend to the forgotten sign. What was exalted is now casted down and what was cast down was raised up"

This is about Male and Female Channelers, not Verin & Co.

The Black Tower is being raised up and the White Tower is on its way down.

Mat's bleeding

Posted by Talmanes on 07.11.01 21:36
Egwene dreamt of Mat with his hat pulled low covering a wound that was bleeding.

When Mat fought the Shaido in Cairhein he took a wound across his forhead. After the battle he was sitting on a rock and had his hat pulled low across the wound to shield the sun.

This could be the dreams reality.

Moiraine soon wrote Thom a letter which she gave to Rand.

The Horn

Posted by LLaydwhonn Gaidin on 08.11.01 13:31
We believe, but we can´t be certain that the HoV is still connected to Mat as he had been killed by Rahvin and was only resurrected by Rand´s balefire. The question is, who knows this? Siuan certainly not, and I´m not sure if Egwene or Verin do. So it might be successful if Rand himself blew the horn...


Llaydwhonn Gaidin
The disguised Asha´man
Still unbonded
Dedicated to the Black Ajah

But...

Posted by mauladala on 08.11.01 16:28
the use of balefire makes any preceeding events "unoccur." (the stronger the balefire, the more events are unraveled)
It makes it as if it never happened. So in essence, Mat did not die. Rahvin's actions were erased/annuled/nullified...made non-existent. There was no actual resurrection; he simply did not die. So he therefore remains the Hornblower.
-mauladala


-mauladala

"I'd just as assume kiss a Wookie!"
"I can arrange that! You could USE a good kiss."

Hanging!!

Posted by cai on 15.11.01 20:20
don't forget that matt was hung in book 4! Rand brought him back to life with CPR( or their version of it). this could have cut the bonds of the HoV. the balefire incident did nothing to this bond.

CAI

i love this sign!!
Boba Fett is the MAN!!

Unstained Tower bends

Posted by Immortal on 03.01.02 01:25
I have a thought about one of your paragraphs MattTaz. You said,

"I put into an earlier post that the "unstained Tower will break and bend to the forgotten sign". Some said this was Verin, Kurina & Co swearing fealty to Rand, but I doubt Verin & Co could be descibed as an 'unstained tower'. This must be the White Tower. And for the White Tower to bend to Rand, this must mean they have been dealt a huge blow."

The unstained tower is TV's white flame and the forgotten sign is the old Aes Sedai sign that Rand carries. I believe that all that means is that the White and Black Tower will join together as one. Just a thought.

a new tower for sure....

Posted by bloody_ashes on 09.01.02 13:52
I agree with 'Immortal, above. I suspect the broken, unstained tower in prophecy alludes to the result when Egwene reclaimes the WT...such that half the Aes Sedai fighting between Egwene and the Elaida die, leaving an unstained tower operating at less than capacity and without the old-school Red Aja. Consequently, when the Seanchan attack 'in rows' on Tar Valon, Egwene will be forced to unite with Logain and the ash'aman (after they have their own internecine with Taim and the BT); so restoring the Aes Sedai as it was first made in the AoL and bowing to it's sign.

In regards to Mat's eye and balanace scale, I don't agree with anything said as of yet. If 'half the light of the world' does allude to his physical eye, then yes, its payment to the Finns for Moiraine would work...but to what end? How does that correlate to 'saving the world'? Maybe saving Moiraine is his balance scale with two Aes Sedai (and losing his eye physically), but I don't think it necessarily includes the 'world' prophecy.

So if his physical eye is not 'half the light of the world', then I'll go with the idea of yielding something to the DO ... but only if its to 'save the world', which would be saving Rand, somehow and for whatever ill he will have. I don't recall any fullfillment of *real* prophecy (Finns are just wordy soothsayers) of Mat saving the world, only Rand does. Hence I'll agree that Mat has to somehow use the HoV to save Rand and lose something to the DO, as that the HoV is his only weapon for such big-stakes.

Unstained Tower

Posted by Elder Haman on 09.02.02 22:54
Wow, is everyone who posted on this blackboard a Taimandred believer???

Only that topic brought out so many people who stubbornly disregarded things THAT RJ ACTUALLY SAID IN THE BOOKS.

As the one sane post above said, re-read that last paragraph of LoC and realize that Rand fulfilled the prophecy at Dumai's Wells on that day.

Doubting that would be like doubting that Falme was where the true Dragon was going to proclaim himself, and thus, that Rand is the Dragon Reborn.

Last Paragraph & Prophecy

Posted by Talmanes on 19.02.02 21:14
The last paragraph of LoC
"As the prophecy SUGGESTED the unstained tower broke and bend to the forgotten sign"

"Suggested" is the key word.

And again the Unstained Tower is the White Tower, and the White Tower has NOT bent the knee to anybody.
Verin & Co are not the unstained tower

Mat's eye - Odin parallels.

Posted by Sarah Blakeney on 24.02.02 12:52
RJ has given Mat many of the attributes of the Norse god Odin. Eg, broad brimmed hat, fights with a spear, associated with 2 ravens. More important, Odin submitted to be hanged from the tree of the world in exhange for knowledge, and later gave up an eye in exchange for wisdom.

Now, we know Mat gained knowledge in exchange for being hanged by the Finns. I would have thought wisdom will be what he gets when he sacrifices an eye. We know from what Aginor (or was it Balthamel) said in EotW that Mat is "an old thing, an old friend, an old enemy". None of his present memories of the ancient generals are before the breaking, so they can't be what the Forsaken is talking about. Whatever it does mean, Mat will discover it when he sacrifices his eye.

I do believe this will happen when he & Thom rescue Moiraine from the Finns. It will be the other set of Finns he makes the bargain with (I never can recall which is which), the ones who answer questions rather than the ones who grant requests.

And something about what he learns that day will be crucial to defeating the DO.

white tower black tower

Posted by Tomas on 06.03.02 15:47
so far in reading all of the comments on this message board everybody believes that the unstained tower is the white tower. but (bash me if I'm wrong cos I read the posts at 2 am) doesn't it not mention in the profecy whether it's the white tower or the black tower. the 'unstained tower' could be the result of the split in the black tower. I say this because in WH RJ frequently makes allusions to the different factions in the black tower. I also have reason to believe that Mazrim Taim and his factions are darkfriends.

response to Cai (a while up)

Posted by metallica-man2 on 06.06.02 23:17
I don't think that Mat was saved from dying through use of CPR, because on the first day that he was in Rhuidian, Mat talked to the Finn, and when Rand cut him down they departed almost immediately. However, when they returned to the Aiel camp, they were informed that they had been gone for aproximately 9 days. This implies that Mat was hanging for a little over 8 days. It is not possible for CPR to help after that, the person just wouldn't be alive anymore.

I think that the previous statement probably lends more credence to Mat not being connected to the HoV anymore, however I will reserve my judgement on this.

until my next post, I remain:


the lover of light and wisdom
the all-seeing eye
the wandering wotmaniac

Min's viewing

Posted by Shinowa on 12.06.02 15:59
A blow to the Tower. Hmmm. Min, before the split, sees an awful lot of Aes Sedai in collars.

White Tower.. unstained? Huh?

Posted by Dovienya_Sedai on 15.07.02 09:41
Who in their right mind could describe the White Tower as unstained? It's full of Black Ajah and women trying to control the Dragon Reborn.

It's entirely possible that Verin & Co are "the unstained Tower" since they represent Aes Sedai (often associated with the Tower, of course) and they are unstained (they're not Black Ajah and they're totally devoted to Rand.. at least, they're "in his hand," as Min says).

the unstained tower

Posted by Corevin on 30.07.02 15:44
Well, the only thing I can say to this theory about the unstained tower broke and bending knee is this:
The prophecy says "..the unstained tower broke and bend to the forgotten sign.." As I believe, prophecy isn't fulfilled all at once in one blow. Therefore, here is how I view it. The unstained tower is obviously the White Tower. Who can sanely deny that? Well, as for this tower breaking and bending knee...isn't the Tower already broke? It's been broken, so why think that the Tower has to be restored of the previous breaking and break a second time? It's ludicrous. Anyway, those few Aes Sedai did bend knee, and Aes Sedai represent the White Tower, so the unstained tower is bending knee. But no where says they'll all bend knee at once, if in fact, they all bend knee...but you gotta start somewhere.

Corevin

Brain Damage is all in your head

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

Light of the World

Posted by Talmanes on 04.09.02 23:09
The light of the world is saidin and saidar.

The White and Black Tower may best represent this. I can't say how Mat losing his left eye would save the entire planet and nobody has come up with a good idea yet (I think)

Me Again

Posted by Talmanes on 27.09.02 20:56
Imagine if the White Tower was flattened and the surviving AS joined the rest of the Aes Sedai with Logain.

Rand who now is in war-mode might say "you will do as Logain says"

All of the sudden Logain becomes the 2nd most powerful man in the world. "Power and Glory such as few men have ever dreamed of"

Hmmmmm.....Interesting.

Posted by son_of_the_nine_moons on 03.10.02 02:23
Ok, well, to take what several of you said and put it all in a blender and hit blend... Let's see...

Matt is going to give up half the light of the world to save the world. And the "unstained Tower will break and bend to the forgotten sign".

Now, Corevin said above that the white tower is already broken, absolutely true. Shinowa mentioned Min's veiwing about all the Aes Sedai in Collars.

Ok, so I think it's pretty clear that the unstained tower is the white tower, my question is, couldn't the white tower also be the "half the light of the world" that Matt gives up? If he gave the white tower to the Seanchen in some way, couldn't that be the White tower bending knee to the forgotten sign? The symbol of the Royalty/Return could easily be the Forgotten Sign spoken of. Anyway, just a thought.


Son of the Nine Moons
Brother-in-Law to Matt
I read more
They're coming to take me away. Heh heh.


Son of the Nine Moons
Brother-in-law to Matt
I read more
They're coming to take me away. Heh heh.

Mats eye

Posted by chance_bails on 17.01.03 16:10
"give up half the light of the world to save the world"

maybe this means simply that he will lose an eye to save the world. That would be half of his light. Now the question becomes why....Nynaeve thinks anything short of death can be healed. We have seen reference to Rand possibly becoming blind for some reason. What if Mat "donates" one of his eye's to use in the healing of Rand's sight so he can channel. Just a thought but maybe we are reading too much into "give up half the light"

thats a good point

Posted by blindsight84 on 30.03.07 13:10
the theroy i heard ws half the light of the world is his eye .. evidence is the views eye on a scale, and blood on his face. and the reason for HIS eye being so important i have seen was he needs to give up his eye to the finn to save Moiraine and that would explain why it's so important, Moiraine is to save Rand (via another min view) any way long story short that was my orginal perception of the half the light of the world theory. but now these comments have led me to be other wise.... light of the world being the one power. and half being either Saidin or Saidar and that he would give up half the light of the world, the white tower, via through sheanchan attacking the white tower. to save the world.


long story short .... don't like the theory this post is about but do like the comments made in agrument, nice idea and good thoughts