I've read much speculation over the two Aes Sedai that are on the balance scales that Matrim is holding but I didn't see anything to the effect of what I thought about the matter.
Simply, I feel that the two Aes Sedai on the balance scale is Teslyn and Joline.
Here is why: At this point in the story we know that Joline is Black Ajah and that Teslyn probably isn't. I think that in the next book Mat is going to be forced to choose between Teslyn and Joline as far as who he will take with him in leaving Altara to get back to Caemlyn (or where ever he his headed). I think it's so dire or important for which he chooses because since Joline is Black Ajah she will probably betray him when she get a chance and kill him (difficult using the Power with his medallion, but not with your standard knife or darkfriend warder). If Mat gets captured or killed that is bad, because from what Min sees it requires the three Ta'veren together to overwhelm the forces of the Dark. So the obvious choice that Mat will come to is Teslyn (he's going to make that choice because he's ta'veren, and one of Jordan's main characters) but what is so important about Teslyn?
At the end of Winter's Heart, we come to understand that it was Teslyn that had interests in protecting Elayne and she doesn't really describe why. Lightfriend? If you believe that I got some beachfront property in Malkier for ya, really beautiful. But from this I am lead to believe that it is important that Mat will choose Teslyn over Joline (also if you remember Joline was one of the Aes Sedai directly supporting Elaida and her coup to unseat Siuan Sanche as Amyrlin). I think Teslyn is one Red who is finally getting the picture. I think she was in Ebou Dar long enough to see that Elayne and Nynaeve (two wet behind the ears Aes Sedai) were ordering around seasoned veterans of the Game. Telsyn had to wonder why, she may have believed that she was acting for the greater good, or being associated with young Matrim Cauthon (pretty much Dragonsworn) perhaps aiding the Dragon Reborn which even Elaida acknowledged as one male channeler who cannot be immediately be severed. SO, next book we'll know for certain who Mat will chose, and perhaps have a better idea of what Teslyn is about.
Dovienya,
Rafiq
Shen an Calhar
Burr says: Well, I don't know if I'd say that Teslyn is getting the big picture just yet, but it does seem as though Jordan is setting her up to accept it.
Comments
Where does it say Joline is Black Ajah?
...like to know the same thing. Did she lie or something?
I think Teslyn will in some way end up helping Egwene. Remember, she's Red and Egwene doesn't have any Reds yet. And was there something about needin a Sitter from every Ajah.
Wouldn't it be nice if Teslyn being Red and voting for Egwene would help to pull the mat from under Elaida...
Seita 
Just because you're paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you!
Eliada did make her (Teslyn) resign her chair after being a Sitter for the Reds for 15 years and she's not exactly in a hurry to send info to the White Tower.
Just because Teslyn is in no apparent hurry to aid Elaida does not maker her Black Ajah. Remember, she just had a job she had for 15 years taken from her by this woman. Aes Sedai may be able to channel, but they are still people too and are subject to holding grudges.
is accusing Teslyn of being Black Ajah, it's Joline who it has been said is and no one seems to remember this.
The reason Teslyn isn't giving Elaida the info is to show her independence and of course to get back at her for taking away her chair.
Sorry, I took your mention of Teslyn's indifference towards Elaida as an accusation.
You are right that Joline is the one in question. However, unless someone can offer a quote or some other proof that she is Black Ajah, then there is hardly any question at all.
i don't think one or even two Black warders could even think about killing mat
, even if he wasn't an essential character, and as for just a knife, remember when Mat's
darkfriend aiel maiden in rhiudea? she was dead very quickly...
Teslyn and Joline are pretty much the only Aes Sedai around Mat at the moment. But there is a third, Edesina, and frankly, even assuming the Aes Sedai Mat will have to choose between are among those with him, it's far from clear which two they would be, and which one of them actually is the "correct" choice.
Joline has not been said to be Black as far as I can remember. And it was pretty much said straight out that it was Teslyn's bad will against Elaida rather than any good intentions towards Elayne and the others that made her act the way she did.
Furthermore, it's still very hard to see how something so big and important could come out of a choice between Joline and Teslyn. If indeed Joline is Black I guess there could be something in it, but before that is established, we are still pretty clueless on the subject.
No, I can't see that your theory holds much water. Maybe it turns out to be true, but as of now, it's just as probable (well, really moreso) that it doesn't. We're still in a stage of read-and-find-out on this...
Yubi
Disclaimer:
This person has a bad memory, too much belief in his own opinions and hasn't read the books for 30 months. Therefore take anything he says with a huge load of salt. 
I haven't read a single word to convince me that Joline is BA.It is clear for the theory author but not for the readers.And even if she is black what could she do to Mat?
No,I don't believe it.
Fanatic-Templar of the Order of Cadsuane Haters
I can see something like this happening: Something occurs regarding the White Tower conflict, where Teslyn and Joline takes different standpoints, or find themselves in different problems. Mat then comes in a position where he can chose to go along the ideas of Teslyn (who is Red, I might add) and those of Joline (or come in a position where he must chose to help one of them). If he goes along with Teslyn, even if it doesn't look so initially, Egwene takes the Tower, the Blacks is thrown out and eventually Tarmon Gaidon is won. If he goes with Joline (now assumed Black), the Blacks take over the White Tower (under Alviarin for example), and eventually hands the DO the Wheel of Time...
Now, since I can't see that Joline is Black, this is quite far-fetched. But it wouldn't surprise me, would it turn out something like that (whoever is Black, and whoever it's advantegeous for Mat to follow/help etc etc). But we'll have to RAFO!
Yubi
Disclaimer:
This person has a bad memory, too much belief in his own opinions and hasn't read the books for 30 months. Therefore take anything he says with a huge load of salt.
People think Joline is Black because of the comment of Mat finding her note under his pillow.
But this is NOT a lie. This is a classic Aes Sedai statement.
"All debts are cancelled once you get me outside Ebou Dar"
She did not say "Yes I left the note under your pillow".
She wasn't lying, just avoiding the question in the hope that Mat will be debt-bound in getting her outta Ebou Dar.
Also when taking Teslyn into consideration with Egwene's troubles you have to take into account that she is thousands of miles
away and cannot 'Travel'. Most likely Mat is headed to Illian to use Tuon as a hostage to stop the Illian invasion. (and the HoV legend)
Therefore it would take about 30 days? unless they steal a to'raken to get there and 5-10 days to get to TV by boat.
The Tower problem could be over by then????
know exactly where Mat intends to go, back to where he thinks the rebel Aes Sedai are I suspect as he has Aes Sedai with him and he'll want to rejoin the Band, but PLEASE don't let Semirhage or anyone catch them escaping and keep them in Ebou Dar, I am fed up with that city.
Joline isn't black. This is a quote from her PoV:
ACoS, chapter 17:
"... the heat made her afraid. The Dark One was touching the world, and
their only hope a boy who was running wild."
Her frame of reference pits mentions the "Dark One" not the "Great Lord" as all other darkfriends call it.
But Mat most likely thinks Joline is black:
WH
"And that meant he was mistaken about who he owed the debt to. He made his leave without calling Joline on her lie- a lie even if only by letting his mistake pass- and
he left without telling Mistress Anan, either. It was his problem. It made him feel sick. He wished he had never found out."
Mat mentions the word lie in his thoughts. Anytime, lie, is mentioned in association with Aes Sedai this can only mean one thing: black Ajah. So RJ is setting up an interesting dynamic here. Joline isn't black, but Mat thinks that she is. I wonder how Jordan is going to use this in future plotlines, and I have no doubt that he will. Any ideas?
By the way, I think, and I don't know if it is my original thought or not, that Rand and Tuon are the 2 Aes Sedai that Mat has to weigh. Although they are not technically Aes Sedai, they can both channel, and it is possible that may both be Aes Sedai in the future.
ADA- AlannaDawn Anonymous-- helping wotmaniacs recovering from their AlanndaDawn Addictions in a dynamic new 12-step program.
The possibility that the two "Aes Sedai" may actually just refer to two people is an idea I have had before, but sure convolutes the plot. I do like the thought that maybe he would have to choose between Tuon and Rand, but I don't remember Tuon having the ability to channel. I am wrong? I'll have to check.
Another thing about Joline probably not being black is that she has two warders. It has been discussed before that having warders, especially more than one, complicates the issue of being black. Both warders would also have to be darkfriends, but that's always a possibility
Pronounced: "Rand was here"
But she could have two Warders and be Black. Another Green/Black sister, Asne (one of Liandrin's lot) has four Warders, one of whom who is a Darkfriend, and three who she can control. So it's possible, but she didn't actually lie so she isn't.
But I do agree with the rest of this theory. This fits in with my own theory - to be elected Amyrlin Seat, you need ALL the Ajahs to support you. Both Egwene and Elaida only had five, so neither is technically the Amyrlin Seat. However if Egwene can get three Red Sitters to support her, or vote retrospectively for her, then she will legally be the Amyrlin and Elaida will be totally out. (And the Saildar Hall will have fits.
) Pevara is one possibility, Teslyn another (if, say, a current Red sister was found to be BA and she got reinstated) and then the third would probably swing. So Mat's choice between Teslyn and Joline for some reason could be very important.
Ruriha Sedai 
Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah
Officially On Holiday 
Middle-Earth Kiwi 
She Who Has Returned
There are seven ajahs, not six. (Blue, Brown, Gray, Green, Red, White, and Yellow) Someone stated that Egwene and Elaida only have 5 ajahs behind them, but in actuality they have 6.
Also, as for Joline's Warders, I think the argument there was not that she couldn't be Black because she had warders, but that two Warders against Mat wouldn't be a fair fight (they'd need at least four Warders to have a chance)
As for Tuon, she cannot channel YET. In Winter's Heart Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides", Tuon thinks about a damane she trained, giving her the ability to wear the a'dam bracelet. What we've learned throughout the series is that sul'dam (women who wear the a'dam bracelet), is that they have the spark in them to learn to channel, only they cannot reach it unguided. So Tuon can channel, she'll just need help the first time.
gonna have a LOT of difficulty getting the Reds behind her when they discover that Suian, who has been helping and supporting Egwene all along, spread the lie that the Red Ajah forced Logain to pronounce himself as the Dragon Reborn, which is one of the main reasons for the rebellion.
I'm not familiar with Tower law, but if she does indeed need the support of only 3 Reds, she's well on her way. Firstly she should have Teslyn, then there's that Red who hates Elaida, the one Logain captured and finally the one who's searching for the BA in the Tower. She seems reasonable enough to turn on Elaida.
It would not be too suprising if we see the disappearance of the Red Ajah. Remember that saidin is clean. Once the partially mad men roaming the world right now as Asha'man die off, any man who channels will be no worse off than an Aes Sedai. If they grow into acceptance by the world, then what purpose would the Red Ajah hold? Their job is to protect the world from male channelers, but there is no more serious threat.
Siuan didn't spread the lie- she talked to Logain- Logain spread the lie. As I recall, she convinced him about the red ajah story being his key to revenge, and he just elaborated from there. We don't know if she ever mentioned it to any aes sedai before Logain did. Am I mistaken?
These are all very useful theories, it'll be interesting to see what RJ has in store for Mat & the ladies- I hadn't remembered the bit about Tuon training a Damane- I thought she just speculated- what a twist for Mat that his wife will probably learn to channel!
Wolf Sister of the White Ajah
The way is clear, the light is good,
I have no fear, nor no one should.
The woods are just trees, the trees are just wood.
Credit to Sondhiem
(from Egwene's dream)
"Mat, weighing two huge Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended.. She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps."
I don't see that Teslyn OR Joline are 'huge'. And, unless proof shows, we can assume that Joline is NOT Black Ajah. I don't even think Mat thinks this; his feeling 'sick' certainly could have as much to do with his general distaste of the loopholed dishonesty of Aes Sedai -- especially when that dishonesty just caused him to be used.
My guess is Egwene and Semirhage are the two 'Aes Sedai'
Egwene has previous dreams of Mat racing against time to rescue her. And don't forget that Semirhage USED to be Aes Sedai, so the dream may still qualify for her. And it makes more sense. Both are certainly 'huge'. Where Semirhage's influence comes from her contact with Tuon. And assuredly, Semirhage being the classicly devious bi--er, meanie that she is...she'll have some form of control (by the Power, of course) over Tuon. That would weigh heavily with Mat.
I'm pretty certain that Suian has spread the lie. I seem to remember that the only reason they believed the Red/Logain thing is because Suian told them outright and they think she can't lie, they don't realise that being stilled frees you from the oaths.
added the first huge there, the actual quote is:
"Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended....She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps."
Egwene dreaming of Mat racing towards her is in all probability explained by him trying to save Egwene from the Black Ajah in Tear. Unless she has had that dream again.
//i\
Omnia Tempus Revelat
First, Siuan spreading the lie is not entirely true. She said that Logain had told her this. Which he had. After she had instructed him to it. So it's fully possible it will come out that Logain lied, without it being traced to Siuan lying. It could simply be explained by Logain wanting revenge on the Reds. Especially if Siuan can continue her usual manipulating self without the other Aes Sedai catching on, will make this scenario quite likely. And even if that's not the case, the choice of Egwene was meant to be a neutral one, NOT being connected to either of the two factions. Except for Egwene, Siuan and Leane, no one seems to realize the strong connection between the three, why Egwene actually might be considered an undependent, and therefore not falling even if Siuan is.
Secondly, it's not the Aes Sedai themselves that have to be huge, but it's the choice of them that should make a huge difference. Therefore a choice of Teslyn or Joline might very much mean a huge difference, for example on the Tower conflict, even if Teslyn and Joline does not seem so important taken out of context. As is talked about above, Teslyn being a Red could mean Mat chosing her would pave the way for Egwene, while another choice might pave the way for the Black Ajah.
Yubi
Disclaimer:
This person has a bad memory, too much belief in his own opinions and hasn't read the books for 30 months. Therefore take anything he says with a huge load of salt.
knows about Suian at least if not Leanne. So that's a bit of a worry, even if she has sworn an oath of fealty to Egwene.
I'm a little bit confused as to why the sisters who have rebelled are taking Logain's word as truth.
...why they're taking it as the truth? Because it's handy. They rebelled before knowing about Logain, or even knowing Suian was alive. But they've got a problem. They look like rebels and will be treated as traitors -- UNLESS they have a compelling reason. The Logain thing gives them that.
And be careful; it may not even be a lie. Whereas some Red Ajah have expressed outrage, others have suppressed guilty thoughts. Certainly it wouldn't be well-known Ajah-wide. If nothing less, Aes Sedai know how to keep secrets and that would be a biggie.
As for the 'huge' thing...odd. I copy and pasted it from Egwene's view. And I partly agree with someone's comment about it being something else (Tear). Egwene's and Min's viewings all seem fairly immediately resolved. Most of them, at any rate (within the same book or next).
Where is it written in the books that Logain made up his story about the Reds forcing him to proclaim himself as the DR. I don't recall reading that this story was infact completely false and Logain's only means of revenge. I took it for truth.
Please supply me with a quote proving that the Reds did NOT deliberately SET UP a False Dragon just to tear him down.
Of course, that doesn't mean that they beyond all reasonable doubt weren't true in the first place (without Siuan knowing that). But there's no reason to believe that. It simply doesn't make sense. The Reds hate male channelers wih a vengeance. The only possible scenario where they would actually set up one themselves would be if they were on the brink of extinction as an Ajah. They are not. Quite the contrary in fact. They are the biggest Ajah of them all, and this is a time where there are so many false Dragons proclaiming themselves of own account, that making some up would just be ridiculous.
Yubi
Disclaimer:
This person has a bad memory, too much belief in his own opinions and hasn't read the books for 30 months. Therefore take anything he says with a huge load of salt.
I don't think Joline is Black Ajah, she doesn't lie, she is just terrified but is also an Aes Sedai (meaning that she is used to grasping anything and turning it to her best advantage). If she thinks that Mat is helping her escape enslavement because he thinks she left the girls a note, do you think she would risk being left behind because she told the truth straight out? There must be Aes Sedai game shows used to hone truth twisting skills...
Teslyn is fairly straightforward about being ticked off at Elaida's 'unseating', and I think that Aes Sedai are just as likely to hold a grudge. But it is handy that she is a Red, allied with 'Little Tower' allies. This looks like a step towards handing full tower power to Egwene.
As for the Reds being eliminated now that the male Source is clean, tradition doesn't allow AS to change Ajahs, so unless all the Reds are somehow killed there's no future for them... Unless they found the red tower, or (more likely) the Ajah will change it's focus.
With all the other traditions throughout the books changing (Aiel Wise One traditions, White Tower traditions, etc.), it could be entirely possible that Reds can change Ajah. After all, we have seen a former Blue switch to Green.
On the other hand, perhaps the Reds will merge with the Asha'man somehow. Perhaps they'll be Warders to the Reds or vice versa.
This is all merely speculation.
You forgot that, even if Mat must choose between 2 aes'sedai, nowhere is it said that one of them ought to be BA, or a forsaken. It could be as simple as choosing between rescuing Teslyn or Joline. Let's say that Mat choose Teslyn, then Joline die, and Teslyn help Egwene. Now if Mat choose Joline, Teslyn die, and in doing so, she cannot help Egwene, who failed and get executed. (anyway, i don't think that Mat's choice is between those two)
I found the comment about Egwene and Semirhage interesting. The poster said that because of "Anath's" influence over Tuon, Mat might be torn. But consider this: Tuon has the ability to channel, thus proven in Winter's Heart when Jordan makes a point of mentioning that she enjoys training marath'damane. As we all know by now, damane have the spark naturally, and sul'dam can learn how to channel.
So, if I were to stretch the comment about Egwene and Semirhage a bit further, Mat could be caught between Egwene and Tuon, in more ways than one, as Egwene as the Amyrlin Seat and Tuon is the heir apparent to the Seanchan Empire.
Jaded Angel
Well, this post produced some speculation, so I'd like to add another. I have no problem seeing that the Aes Sedai in question are in fact Egwene and Moiraine. Something happens, so that Mat get the choice of either going to the Tower to help Egwene, or try to rescue Moiraine. It's in fact the most natural solution of them all, although of course it's not for certain in any way.
Yubi
Disclaimer:
This person has a bad memory, too much belief in his own opinions and hasn't read the books for 30 months. Therefore take anything he says with a huge load of salt.
I think they think that Joline is Black because of a particular quote.
*~*~*~*~*
"The note asking me to warn Nynaeve and Elayne," he said slowly. He licked his lips and added, "The one you left on my pillow."
She flicked a hand dismissively, but her eyes, focused on his face, never blinked. "All debts between us are settled [when I'm out of the city]"
Mat swallowed hard. The note had been stuck into his coat pocket somehow, not left on his pillow...He made his leave without calling Joline on her lie-a lie even if only by letting his mistake pass [and left].
*~*~*~*~*
She didn't really lie, and I don't think she's Black. I could be wrong. But it would be interesting if the 'two Aes Sedai' he has to weigh are analogies for the White Tower Aes Sedai and the Rebels. See- I remember some place Egwene saying that he never broke a promise.
He promised to get Joline & Teslyn out of Ebou Dar,
and he promised to get Elayne to...I think it was Andor. So...if those two promises come into conflict, he might have to choose...and if something happens that makes the Aes Sedai he's rescuing as important as Elayne et al -say, they save his life, or one of them bonds him (with or without his permission wouldn't matter- he'd still have to protect whichever of them did it)- than it really would be a conflict for him.
My point is simply that the 'two Aes Sedai' could be two
groups of Aes Sedai, not just single women or men.
By now the whole of her life has been traded like a pawn
That's why she knows the price...of living with the safety on
In PoD when discussing the Oath Rod, in the context of whether or not people should lie, and the occasional usefulness of lies, Egwene says that without Siuan's lie about Logain and the Red Ajah, blah blah blah. Siuan never contradicts her and when responding with her own feelings and personal compromise about lying, she tells Egwene how she only refrains from lying to Egwene and Bryne. While arguing for the 3 Oaths, and against lying, she almost certainly would have corrected Egwene if she had kept the letter of the First Oath and avoided a lie. She also mentions contemplating lying to influence Egwene. This implies that she hasn't or wouldn't have refrained from lying to others to influence them. Finally, it has to be a lie, since she would have corrected Egwene if the Reds had been setting up false Dragons for real (if they had and the mysterious Red Ajah scandal from 15-20 yrs. ago was part of that, Siuan would have known from her access to the secret records. She would not have overlooked recent history in favor of the millenia old stuff she keeps refering too, considering the events in New Spring, and the fact that she would have been looking for any clues that the Black Ajah or even Red where close to finding the Dragon Reborn. Any kind of cover-up involving Reds and Dragons would have drawn her attention when she investigated the secret histories)and she would not have needed to lie, and would have been able to shade the facts to suit her needs. Sinc Siuan admitted (by not denying) the lie, and Elaida has said it isn't true (and she was involved somehow in the real scandal, so she'd know) Siuan did in fact lie and Logain knows the truth. If he is loyal to Rand, he'd be likely to share that fact if he had the chance. He hates all Aes Sedai, not just Red's and don't forget, the Amyrlin leads the circle for gentling, so he would probably not mind embarassing her.
Cannoli
"I'm German-Irish" - Tom Hagen
“There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men" - Edmund Burke
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus vult!
I like Joline!! She is so NOT black!
Good comment by Crazy Aes Sedai about how the balance scales might be weighing two of his
promises. But the logistics of Mat getting all the way to Caemlyn (since I doubt Elayne is leaving anytime soon) with Joline and Teslyn and then being forced to choose between them just doesn't work. Plus, by the time he'll run into Elayne he'll already have fulfilled the promise to J & T.
But still, I think this little sub-plot would better suit the greater story if the AS he chooses between are individuals rather than two groups...but we'll have to wait and see, also known as RAFOing
Do NOT highlight this space...P Floyd...or you'll be in trouble!
............'You're a pacifist with a gun, Eileen.' - Sam Roberts
Joline is definitely not black - theres a passage from when she's in Ebou Dar in book 7 or 8 when theres a short passage from her point of view. She makes some comment in her thoughts like 'the light preserve us' or something. Also, Teslyn was with the group that ousted Siuan as well as Joline. If we're looking for strangeness in the Sisters with Mat, we should look at Edesina - Joline, a known light-following-person says"I heard that she..." in a context suggesting that it was something very odd, ie not being a rebel, which she and Teslyn come right out and say "she do be a rebel but i will no leave her" etc. Maybe not, but its a better idea than this one
I think it was aCoS.
How do we know that Joline is Black ajah???? I must have missed that....
First post!