Ages in the Wheel/Rand as Christ/The Source

Posted by Atohanie on 27.03.02 15:37

Yes, I know the whole Randland/Earth thing gets done into the dirt, but I’d thought I’d take a shot at putting a little extra spin on it. I am not putting forward a belief system or trying to bring lower any religion or religious views. This is simply my take on the use of real life events and objects in a FICTIONAL world. Forgive the small mistakes, as I don’t carry my library around with me.

As it says in the beginning of each book, Myth fades to Legend, and even that is lost once that age comes again. In reconstructing the ages of the Wheel, all we should have to do is go though both Randland and our own Mythical Past and future (as in current prophecies) and piece the puzzle together.

First, we put Randland in the third age (as it is called by some). We know the age of Legends was before that, so the second age. That leaves us with five ages to fill in. From what we can see in Randland, both ages have/will end with a major cataclysmic “end of the world” event, as well as one person who will be a savior to the world; Rand in the third age, Hawkwing in the previous.

If we go through our own folklore, we have a Christ who will end our current age in his return, and ended the previous age when he came before. We can also piece together (with continuing difficulty, because as Thom said, no one knows how the story will change in the ages to come), that the age before Christ began with the Flood. The world was saved at the end of that age by one man, Noah, but it is possible there was someone else not mentioned in the lore. That’s three ages.

A little more on the scientific bent is the fact that every several millennia we have an Ice Age.

Summing up. Each age, both in Randland as well as in our own lore being used in that world, ends with the coming of a savior. Christ is referred to by many names, and it wouldn’t surprise me that in a couple of Ages it wouldn’t also be Dragon.

First Age: Christ-Current day.
Second Age: Age of Legends.
Third Age: Randland.
Fourth Age: Post-Randland (because we do hope for a happy ending)
Fifth Age: Ice Age
Sixth Age: Adam-Noah
Seventh Age: Noah-Christ

All ages end with a victory for the Light, but to varying degrees. For example, the end of the Noah Age ended with the Flood, thus being the savior of the living; the end of the Christ Age ended with the the current age, the current Age (supposedly) should end with a new Age of Legends, AoL ended with the tainting of Saidin, etc., etc..

The use of Saidin/Saidar is not necessarily ever forgotten completely, as it was used extensively in the AoL, even today there are Cloistered peoples who do “miracles”. Catholic Nuns (which also start as Novices), for example, or monks and priests around the world. There is even a group in Asia which can unexplainably stay in sub-zero whether for long periods of time without any effect to them, even melting the snow around them. These groups are a shadow/precursor/etc. of things to come/have come in Randland.

There’s the basic jist. Myth fades to Legend, and even Legend fades from memory. Good fiction.

Raserei says: Normally, I'm an advocate who loudly says Randland is not earth, but, seeing this, i couldn't help but conceed that it's a neat idea.

When I looked at your cycle you gave, I was thinking that perhaps God/The Creator, or whatever he might be called in another age, really continues his role as a deity.

Though, there is one element that goes against the grain of the Creator in Randland. The Creator is thought to never touch the world, for he is the one who made it, and he leaves it to the devices of man. While this is also true for God and our current state of being, having free will and such, the one act of flooding the world during Noah's time isn't like the Creator. He wouldn't act out like that.

Unless, the flooding was in fact an act of the Dark One/Satan, in which the bible covers it up by saying the people were impure.

All in all, I sorta kinda like this idea, while I still adamantly say Randland is not Earth.


Comments

the flood...

Posted by raytus on 27.03.02 21:16
...is not God's touch on our world, it's just some powerful channeller playing with the bolw of the wind...

Why WoT world IS Earth.......

Posted by Child of the Light on 27.03.02 21:31
This goes to Raserei and all the other people that STILL think WoT is not Earth. I'll just use a few examples straight from the books:

Book 3: When in T'A'R, Egwene goes to the Panarch's display room and picks up a "three-pointed star inside of a circle".... "from an age BEFORE the AOL".... "made of an unrecognizable, soft, chipping metal".... "associated with pride and vanity".... okay, can't get much clearer... it is a Mercedes-Bens insignia, from our age, made of chrome!

Thom's stories:

Elsbet, Queen of All= Queen Elisabeth, during a time when, "the sun never set on the British Empire"

Mosk and Merc, two giants that fought with lances of fire= two powerful nations that fought with nuclear weapons (in OUR future)

Lenn, who flew to the moon in the belly of a fire eagle= John gLENN..."the EAGLE has landed"

AND, Jordan specifically mentions a time when "humankind forgot the use of the One Power"..... if you read these books you have to know that Jordan never mentions something for nothing. Not to go into the numerous biblical similarities... that would take forever....

And that is why WoT IS OUR WORLD.

Walk in the Light

Sorry, but...

Posted by Deathbone1 on 27.03.02 21:57
Interesting theory, but nun's don't have mystical powers such as the Aes Sedi have in the WOT. Also, something tells me that something screwy is going on with those people who claim they have supernatural powers. While I admit that it would be cool to have those, usually "miricles" are produced by a sense of faith and not conjured up because of some other outside power such as saiden or saidar. But, I do like the theory, i just have to say that I can't really agree with it.


True Power is knowing that you can, but you don't.

-Deathbone1

Current rank in Wse PTS: 164 out of top 1000 (7/8/03)
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
Life finds a way.

John Armstrong landed on the moon

Posted by EntWife on 27.03.02 23:02
This has been pointed out before by someone who probably knows more about this than I do, but... John Glenn never went to the moon. He was the first man to - help me here - orbit the Earth. But Glenn did get to go up in the Space Shuttle as a Senior Citizen. Go John!

Anyway, Child of the Light, you can't use "Lenn" to prove the Earth/Randland thing unless you accuse RJ of making a mistake about Glenn & Armstrong. BTW, I get a HUGE kick out of the Mercedes-Benz ornament. I would have NEVER come up with that one on my on.




It's time to plant my garden.

EntWife

Actually EntWife.... It was Neil....

Posted by Child of the Light on 27.03.02 23:56
Actually it was Neil Armstrong that landed on the moon... but that is beside the point, things change over thousands of years, names etc. "ages come and go, leaving memory that fades to myth that fades to legend, and then even legend is forgotten" so on and so forth... WoT is OUR world, it really couldn't be much clearer in the books, just read between the lines and pay close attention....

Walk in the Light

Thom in The Shadow Rising...

Posted by Jack_and_Coke on 28.03.02 01:21
I have to agree with Child of Light on this one. Page 231 of The Shadow Rising has Thom saying to Elayne something to the effect of ..."Those who know the truth will die, and their grandchildren's grandchildren will remember something diffrent" etc. "Two dozen generations, and you may be the hero of it, not Rand." "Rand al'Thor may be lucky if the next Age remembers his name correctly."

This illustrates to us how the facts and names of events can change with time. Jordan was definately dropping us a hint here.

No, I don't agree.

Posted by Jeremias on 28.03.02 02:04
There doesn't seem to be enough time b/w the ages if you stick to 'biblical' analysis. Technically, if you add up the ages and begats and everything else, God created the world about 4,000-4,500 years ago. that doesn't seem long enough to have run through enough ages- in WOT I think the last age has run for about 3,00 year (is that right?), which means maybe 1.5 ages since the creation, even if you assume the creation is a remaking of the world from the age before.
The references to our world do not _prove_ a connection (and there's more references if you want to look, try the WOT FAQ, full of commentary and links..) Consider Stephen King's gunslinger series, or The Lord of the Rings they're full of crossovers or parallels to our world, but they're not 'our' world.


Jeremias

wow

Posted by AshaDom on 28.03.02 08:30
Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to say something.
I, too, am a huge fan of the Wheel of Time series and definately enjoy the fantasy world.
However, I do believe that making this fantasy into a reality may be stretching it too far. I dont like to tell other people they are wrong, or have issues.....but, look....a creation of the mind is only that. RandLand is not Earth.

HOWEVER! I do beleive that any creation of the mind could easily exist in another place...another dimension if you will. Now, im on my way to becoming a Physicist, dealing with cosmology and space-time, reality, stuff like that. But I think that anything that we create in our minds...people, places, gods.....are created in some other existance.
So, RandLand exists, somewhere else. Maybe in something like the Wolf Dream, or Tel..poo, i can never spell the dream world right...oh well.....you all know what i mean right? like those parallel worlds that can be accessed by those portal stones, or a form of Travelling...that would be cool huh? Ill work on that after I get my degrees, maybe Robert Jordan has already discovered such technologies and is just stealing ideas from someone else's creativity...I hope not!

just my ramblings...nothing more


Your humble servant,
AshaDom

I'm not wierd
just bored!

It isn't all bible.

Posted by aramis on 28.03.02 11:40
I know that it is very attractive to fund a theory on the Bible. But we always should keep in mind that the Bible wasn't RJ's only inspiration. So if we run an analyse of the origin of tWoT, we should keep some space for 'alien'myths. Because this 'looking at only one side' is an error who's to common made.

I Don't See Any Reason to Believe This

Posted by The Voice of Lews Therin on 28.03.02 12:01
First of all, the twisting of names from our world to make WoT legends doesn't mean WoT is set on our Earth; it may just be that Jordan wants us to see how fact becomes legend becomes myth becomes forgotten.

Second of all, why five ages in particular? Why is the "Ice Age" thrown in with Biblical events (is someone under the influence of the Ice Age movie?)? Why does Noah represent a shift in ages? Why does Christ's initial coming then represent another shift? It doesn't make sense. From a pagan perspective, the Age of Taurus (4000-2000 B.C.) gave way to the Age of Aries (2000 B.C. - 1 A.D.), which gave way to the Age of Pisces (hence, Christians greeted the new era with a fish symbol that was "ICHTHYS" - Iesous Christos Theou Yios Soter), which has just ended recently, putting us in the Age of Aquarius. If you're going to use Christian myth, that's the appropriate breakdown. If you're going to use Jewish myth, then you go from Genesis 1 to the coming of the Messiah (who still hasn't come, if you're Jewish).

Simply put, I don't see any reason why we are supposed to believe that WoT must be set on Earth.




Annoying wotmaniacs for 10 years.

Oh, I don't have time for this. I have to go and buy a single piece of fruit with a coupon and then return it, making people wait behind me while I complain. - Prof. Farnsworth

The Voice of Lews Therin

Find out what WOT really means...

Thanks for the correction...

Posted by EntWife on 28.03.02 13:31
Child of Light - Thanks for the correction. Actually, my mis-remembering who landed on the moon helped me believe in your points (and in the Theory being discussed). The moon landing happened in my lifetime. When I was in Elementary School (showing my age here) all classes were interupted so we could watch the moon landing live. I can't even remember if it was the first one or a subsequent one.

If I can confuse the names of the men who did something during my lifetime, how much more can those names get twisted over multiple generations. And there ARE a lot of people out there who think that Glenn did go to the moon.

I know that this discussion is kinda off the point of the theory, but I thought if I could shoot down one argument the rest of the arguments would crumble. Obviously not.


It's time to plant my garden.

EntWife

BTW, it could be LEM

Posted by The Voice of Lews Therin on 28.03.02 13:53
I thought Jordan was referring to LEM, the Lunar Expeditionary Module, which is what the actual vehicle that landed on the moon (nicknamed "the Eagle" ) was called.

That would be closer to being right than to say it's from John Glenn.

And as always, Buzz Aldrin was forgotten.


Annoying wotmaniacs for 10 years.

Oh, I don't have time for this. I have to go and buy a single piece of fruit with a coupon and then return it, making people wait behind me while I complain. - Prof. Farnsworth

The Voice of Lews Therin

Find out what WOT really means...

bout that Christ could have been known as the Dragon at one point......

Posted by Liam™ on 28.03.02 15:51
and that is traditionally Lucifer's name, at least to us now,

I thought I'd point out the little switch, however I'm too tired to make anythignout of it, can you?



Your favourite place is you and me.

Eat dirt, fascist herbivores!

Ours is NOT the Age before AoL

Posted by Ingwall on 28.03.02 17:04
Because if it is, can you direct me to the nearest Portal Stone? If Randland is Earth, then ours should be the Seventh Age, not the First Age. It would be then thus:

1. bAoL. Mankind toys with alternate realities. Magic?
2. AoL. Probably started with the discovery of One Power.
3. Third Age. We are all waiting impatiently for it to end.
4. Fourth Age. Technical progress. Perhaps ends with a nuclear war?
5. Ice Age? Man roaming as brother to animals? Ends with a flood?
6. Noah-Christ, that I'll give you.
7. Our Age.

Mosk and Merc

Posted by Bastian on 28.03.02 17:31
Mosk could very easily be Moscow, and Merc could be America. Thats if you swallow what's being said above, which I have, without chewing. I'm not sure about the whole biblical breakdown, but I do think WoT is Earth in the future. Le me change that, I believe it's meant to be earth in the Future. I thin thats how most people feel, I strongly doubt there is anybody taking this as Holy Spirit inspired Gospel. Besides, its fun to beleive Earth could be WoT, to fanatasize about channeling. Thats whats fun about fantasy, Fantasizing.

me again....

Posted by Child of the Light on 28.03.02 23:33
I'm not saying that WoT ties directly into the bible, although it is obvious Jordan gets some of his inspiration from it.... what makes me believe that it is our world in the future or past or both, is the kind of writer Jordan is. He never mentions anything (characters, places, etc.) without them or it playing a much bigger role in the over all story, so, i don't think he would ever have even dropped hints that could tie to our world if he didnt want the story to go in that direction. Fortune prick me!!

Walk in the Light

Confusion anyone?

Posted by Jack_and_Coke on 29.03.02 01:14
I'm not exactly sure how alot of people came up with us thinking that we BELIEVE that Randland is Earth. I mean c'mon, RJ is a fantastic author but I dont take the WOT as scripture. That would be one of two things...sacriledge or stupidity and I dont subscribe to either one of those.





I think you say Hawkwing ended the 2nd age

Posted by Gena Sedai on 29.03.02 02:32
He did not. LTT did. Forgive me please if I misread the theory.


Gena Sedai

Hey Jack and Coke.....

Posted by Child of the Light on 30.03.02 00:21
No one is saying that WoT is in fact our world.... it is a made up world, what we are saying is that it is supposed to be our planet in a fictional story, kinda like say... ummm.... "silence of the Lambs" is fictional, yet it is supposed to be our world... get it? We understand that WoT doesnt REALLY exist, but it is supposed to be a FICTIONAL version of OUR world's past or future.... Burn me!!!!

Walk in the Light

Hey Child of the Light!

Posted by Jack_and_Coke on 30.03.02 03:30
FYI, I was by no means attacking anything you said on this theory thus far. My appologies to you if it seemed as such. What I was responding to was those who would think such as was illustrated by AshaDom's post...

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to say something.
I, too, am a huge fan of the Wheel of Time series and definately enjoy the fantasy world.
However, I do believe that making this fantasy into a reality may be stretching it too far. I dont like to tell other people they are wrong, or have issues.....but, look....a creation of the mind is only that. RandLand is not Earth."

To Ashadom, I have to say that I like the second part of your post and even agree with it after a fashion. I myself have often theorized that artists, i.e. writers and painters, may have some genetic defect(or gift?) to see other realities, albeit subconcieously, and then feel compelled to share them with the rest of us. I like your thinking.

Okay J&C.....

Posted by Child of the Light on 30.03.02 04:25
I wasn't really offended, i just get overly protective of my beliefs, I am a Child of the Light, afterall.... so no offense taken and hopefully none given on my part... and I still say WoT is, is, IS EARTH!!!! may the hand of the Creator shelter and protect you.

Walk in the Light

Well hey maybe it is

Posted by Jack_and_Coke on 30.03.02 05:57
Given all the things I've read around here, maybe the WOT is earth. Perhaps some Aes Sedai used a portal stone to go back(or forward)in time and let RJ know what was up so we can be prepared. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Try saying that five times fast.

uh, are we missing the point?

Posted by princeofthedawn on 02.04.02 09:05
i think this theory was originally intended to support the idea that in RJ's world, and only in RJ's world, randland is earth. he has created a world that alot of our current myths, legends, philosophies, and religions might be based on. NOT that in truth, randland is earth. for those of you who took it that way, may you find psychiatric help and lots of meds.

peace!

To Prince of the Dawn....

Posted by Child of the Light on 03.04.02 02:06
First of all. . . Shut up. Second of all, I think you're the one missing the point.

Walk in the Light

Response to the comments

Posted by Atohanie on 23.04.02 15:21
First of all, I want to thank everyone for the comments. This interplay is part of why I like WotMania so much. Anyway, I just wanted to put a little more fire into the weave, so to speak, and maybe spirit.

Ingwall, I like the idea of putting another age between ours and the age of Legends. It makes things fit just a little better, and we can toss the ice age. (though at the same time I'm a little sad I wont get to live in the Age of Legends )

Gena Sedai, Yes, I think you're right. So many names, so many major events.

To all those who were getting a little upset that I was pressing a new religion; I'd hoped that I was clear enough in the start of the post that I was not doing so. This is a Fictional world, and many people enjoy bringing it just that much closer to ourselves. I consider myself to be quite religious, and think this form of Circular time absurd, but it is fun to put the world you know into a fictional setting.

One last note; has anyone noticed the similarity between the aura/glory/etc often seen in paintings around Prophets/Saints/etc and the glow around those using the One Power?

Just a thought Thanks again for the comments!

Foolish thinking

Posted by Redturtleneck on 14.05.02 00:36
The dragon cant be based on Christ or God in any way because God is perfect and doesnt screw up. rand and Lews Therin (the dragons we know of) have screwed up a lot. You cant base someone who is as faulty as those two are on the Perfect Triune God. and to whoever said that God made the world and has hence left us to our own desires really needs to read about God more cause if you read just a little of the Bible you see that God most definetly did not just make the world and then back off. That is only foolishness.

FAN FIC

Posted by Thieftaker on 12.06.02 04:01
AS FAR AS ONE OF THE POSTS GO ON HERE ABOUT POSSIBLY THE AOL HAVING STARTED DUE TO THE DISCOVERY OF THE ONE POWER, I READ A FAN FICTION STORY ON ANOTHER SITE ABOUT THAT. THE SITE WAS DRAGONLIBRARY.COM, AND IT WAS ABOUT SOMETIME IN OUR NEAR FUTURE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE ALL OF THE SUDDEN REALIZING THEY HAD THE ABILITY TO USE "MAGIC." THE STORY IS NOT FINISHED, AND I DESPAIR SOMEWHAT OF IT EVER BEING SO. JUST WANTED TO PUT IN MY TWO CENTS


Beware, Lawbreakers!
'Tis I, the Thieftaker!
Faithfull servant of...
Oops, forgot... I don't serve anyone!

umm... some history missing

Posted by Sidhe on 15.07.02 18:19
First, and foremost, some historical info on our world. Our world was around for a long while before humans were around... So... this enless cyclical time thing doesn't really work with our world. While I do think RJ is making some allusions to our world, I don't think he intends it to be taken as this world is our world, just in a different Age. First of all is the slight problem of dinosaurs.... You know, the rulers of the earth for a few million years before we and mammals came around.... But anyways, it doesn't really matter much, but yeah...

Starry Ages

Posted by Gaeran on 14.10.02 13:09
Probably some dinosaur fossils made it into the Panarch's museum. Perhaps dinsosaurs were some of the strange unknown creatures in the frieze on a wall in the Panarch's Museum. REmember Thom's knowledge of Ages. "Ages when men walked as brothers to the animals, Ages when men ruled the stars. Ages that ended in ice and snow (Ice Age) and Ages that ended in fire" (talking about the end of the Dinosaur age when a meteor fell and smothered the world in fire and ashes?) One more thing that you have overlooked: the stars themselves. One of the best way to identify your location on Earth is to look at the starry night sky. Rand identified some of the constellation: the Hunter or Warder in other lands (Orion?), the Five Sisters (Pleiades--once called the Seven Sisters, but one star faded away, perhaps another would fade away leaving five stars), etc....Astronomy says if you're on another planet in a different star system, the appearance of the constellation changes into something different or even unrecognizable.


Gaeran Amaconde
Grand Historian at the Court of the Sun
One of Those Chosen to Bring the Light
Master of Graendal's Revels

"If sometimes our dreams come true, what of our nightmares?"

Judaeo-Christian beliefs a minority

Posted by Monboddo on 02.03.03 11:10
Let's remember that our culture (the West) while currently the dominant civilization, possesses only one type of myth/religion. In your theory the First Age - ours - is labeled 'Christ.' That's overstating Christianity's popularity, to put it mildly.

your ages are way off

Posted by Nekro on 28.05.03 01:49
That leaves us with five ages to fill in. From what we can see in Randland, both ages have/will end with a major cataclysmic “end of the world” event, as well as one person who will be a savior to the world; Rand in the third age, Hawkwing in the previous.

hawkwing is of rands Age. lews therin was the last age. r u reading the same books as us? more evidence is when hawkwing know lews is rand "even if he doesnt know it himself." man he even references lews getting into trbl over women. your theory sinks here because the figure of rand/savior/etc is a repeated soul in a different body. hawkwing & rand in the same place no lews in the horn, when the dragon is part of the horn.

If we go through our own folklore, we have a Christ who will end our current age in his return, and ended the previous age when he came before. We can also piece together (with continuing difficulty, because as Thom said, no one knows how the story will change in the ages to come), that the age before Christ began with the Flood. The world was saved at the end of that age by one man, Noah, but it is possible there was someone else not mentioned in the lore. That’s three ages.

noah is of our age as well as christ wrong again


First Age: Christ-Current day.

maybe

Second Age: Age of Legends.

maybe

Third Age: Randland.

well it is after the aol

Fourth Age: Post-Randland (because we do hope for a happy ending)

who knows

Fifth Age: Ice Age

who knows

Sixth Age: Adam-Noah

same age

Seventh Age: Noah-Christ

same age






NEKRO
VIVA LA REAGAN REVOLUCION

Forget the dog he will shit in the den today a gat is mans best friend








As much as I hate to resurrect the dead...

Posted by LordKOTL on 21.10.03 19:37
It would be foolish, taking this under context, to assume that the monotheism "big three" is the litimus test for every fable, myth, folklore to be credited (and discredited).

If we were to look at the 7 ages, my theory would be more akin to considering the different methods of human "evolution" (or "devolution" as is it's won't)

You have:
Mysticism
Civilization
Feudalism
Renaissance
Spirituality
Technology
Barbarism

The thing i think would be an underlying method is that in each age, that which predisposes the age will bring about it's destruction. I.E. The one-power was used and was the cursor of the Age of Legends--and brought upon it's downfall, so now it's basically a semi-villified thing (any male channeler gives another character the eebiegeebies.) It basically went into the more feudalistic way of the Third Age. Where RJ means to take this, i'm not sure.

Going based upon the way i've laid it out, Mysticism would be like the druidic and other "pagan" so-called cults. Looking for reasons and trying to explain why.

That leads to Civilization as beliefs become a cornerstone of the age, much like the greeks and romans, lots of philosopy and asking questions on the human condition--much like the age of legends, but from rot within it goes to...

Feudalism, much like Randland is now. A lot of nations, each squabbling with each other, and lords and ladies vying in their powerplays (Daes D'mar anyone?). Seing Fel's School, and the discoveries, it would lead into...

Renaissance, in which Methods shifting away from powers begin and into human ingenuity. Since the break is not complete, and there's still the "unknown factor" of a lot of mechanisms as the way the universe works, it usually gets distilled into a simple good/evil duality (God/Satan). This leads to...

Spirituality, which can be marked by the Spanish conquistadores and missionaries out to spread "the word of god". Everyone adheres to the aformentioned dogma, which as discoveries continue, leads into the questioning of said deities and into...

Technology, in which we put all out faith into machinations. We develop things that would, in other ages, look like god-like powers. However, this isn't civilization, where you have people looking for the good of mankind, so usually some power-hunrgy imbeciles blow us into oblivion, where we go to...

Barbarism--the slate is clean and we start over--back to nater, as it were, until our human instincts for questioning and aksing what makes thigns work takes over, and back to mysticism we go.

Theory, yes, but what is this forum about?


When Day and Dream unite the end is near...
...you better be prepared.

~Blind Guardian

thank you Redturtleneck....

Posted by MalkieriChik on 08.08.04 13:57
... for pointing out that rand cannot be based on god/christ in anyway and that people who have never touched the bible should not be comparing WoT too... the only thing im more obsessed with than WoT is Jesus...


"He is such a hypochondriac. I wonder, how many times has he had anthrax this week?"
-Olivia(re:Munch)

"What? did you see your life flash before your eyes? Cuppa tea - cuppa tea - almost got shagged -cuppa tea."
-Spike (re:Giles)

Similar landmass

Posted by Ablar on 18.08.04 10:34
I really like the idea that Randland will become what we know as Earth in another Age.

I just thought I'd support the arguement by pointing out the VERY similar landmass. If you look in the 'World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time' book it has a map of the entire planet and all the islands.

Seanchan- becomes America
Randland- becomes Europe
Shara- becomes Asia
Aiel Waste- becomes Africa
Isle of Madmen- becomes Australia (why bother changing the name )
Sea Folk Isles- becomes Phillapenes/Caribbean

I know it's a fairly weak thing on it's own, but I think it could be another point to add to the Randland = Earth arguement.



Vaguely Remembered

WoT World is our own

Posted by Corin Ashaman on 10.11.04 05:11
First off, I can't use that word to describe the world in the books(it hurts me).

Now, why the WoT world is our own. First off, it's all based off of stereotype(I don't believe these). But that's why it works so well in the explaining - there's a clear stereotype in place.

Obviously, the main continent is Europe. If you didn't see it from the Spanish Peninsula and France(Tarabon/Arad Doman) or Italy (Illian) or Mayene / Tear (Greece, etc), there are some other clear reasons why it must be Europe, based off of the other areas. Also, I think that England is that north-western isle, I can't remember what it's called or which one it is(though it might be Tremalking...)

Seanchan is America. The sending of Hawkwing's son over with armies is very colonial, etc.

The Aiel Waste is the Middle East. They veil themselves, etc. It's an easy way to write off the Middle East as savages, or maybe the Jews(as Aiel are white and were originally from Europe, much as the Aiel were originally from the main continent). Who knows what stereotype was used.

Shara is Asia, probably China, as China was a closed port area for many years until the American Navy opened it up in the 1850s. I had considered India or the South-East Asian Peninsula as candidates for Shara, but the first was colonized by about four different European countries(before the English consolidated) and the second was never walled off, especially after Singapore was opened by the English(and Dutch, I think).

Now for the more difficult(supposedly) parts. The Sea Folk are Africans, probably the Moors(Othello). They must be Meditteranean (ie, southern sea bordering the main continent) Africans, and the Moroccans, Libyans, Western Saharans and Egyptians are too Arab-seeming. However, in the 1500s and 1600s the Moors came as far north as Spain(partial explanation of Domani darker skin?). The fact that they're on isles doesn't really help this matter much, but I can't really explain that part too well, to be honest.

Isle of Madmen... this one kept me guessing. It's Southeast of the main continent, so it does point to Australia, but it would never make sense on a European map to point to Australia, not only because of distance but also because of a good deal of other land in the way. In this case, it's Saudi Arabia, India, South-East Asia and Indonesia(in that order). So I'll write it off as Australia, but it could be, assuming for tectonic shifts, Saudi Arabia or Egypt or something. Probably Israel/Palestine - they're all crazy for not figuring out a solution to the problem by now(bad joke, I know).

The southern isles could well be the Azores as well, or many of the others in the Atlantic, ie Aryth, Ocean.

Here's one thing I haven't seen mentioned that I find interesting. Note that in Europe, the Western coastline goes further west to accomodate Spain in the South, but in WoT, it doesn't. Also note that while I said the Waste was the Middle East, the real Middle East is SouthEAST of Europe. I think that what appears to be NorthWEST on the WoT map would correlate to North in reality, ie you have to turn the map clockwise about 45 degrees(if you start with WoT map to get real map. If you start with a real map, rotate counterclockwise 45 degrees to get WoT). This also explains why Seanchan is sometimes considered southwest by WoT standards.

Other random notes:

Cindaking is either Crete or Cyprus.
Mountains of Mist are those separating France and Spain.
Aile Dashar might be the England isles(?)
Norway/Sweden/rest of Scandinavia is basically the Blight(damn Vikings - they went and colonized Greenland, which you will see is part of the Seanchan Blight - yes, Seanchan has a Blight. Check the Guide's map).

Nice post, I agree, now beat this argument as to why

Posted by caymer on 03.07.05 01:09
Me, personally, I agree with this post 100%. Here's why:

1. It is a FANTASY world created by a man who lives, and is knowledgeable of, today's world.

2. Taking #1 into concideration, it is EXTREMELY likely that RJ has 'woven' his fantasy tale so that it includes our world, thus giving it much more credibility/readability.


Those of you who say that it is impossible or this or that other naysaying are forgetting that writers really only have our world to go off of when creating a fantasy world. It is excedingly difficult, if not impossible, to create something totally from scratch. (memory fails to draw up whether or not I've read something like this).

So, wrapping this up, yes I believe that Randland is our past/future within the reality created by RJ. And my saying that doesn't mean I'm heartily awaiting the coming of the AoL it just means that I really, really like what RJ has done with the place and I can't wait for books 11 and 12.

Close, but no cigar. Pipe, anyone?

Posted by taladas on 30.11.05 13:40
I like the theory, but I like this one better, plus, I "believe" in it. (I put "believe" in quotes because I'm referring to a FANTASY here, people!

http://www.tarvalon.net/library.asp?article=74