This Theory is going to try to prove that Mat is actually King Aemon al Caar al Thorin reborn. Probably the biggest reason people will vote against his theory is the reasoning the reasoning that Aemon didn't do enough to be tied to the Horn as a Hero to be reborn. I personally think that it is not necessary for a person to be tied to the Horn to be tied to the Wheel and reborn. I take this belief from another belief that the Dragon's soul is not tied to the Horn but rather just to the Wheel because well if the Dragon was tied to the Horn it could only cause more problems then it would solve. I also believe that lesser heroes such as Aemon can be tied to the Wheel in the same way only to be spun out when they are needed and not to be called when the Horn is blown.
Well on to why Mat is Aemon.
1) During Moraine's tale of Aemon in tEotW she tells of Manetheren's fall and Aemon's death, at Emond's field. Now I'm trying to say is that is easier for someone to be reborn if the body they are reborn in is born at the place of their previous life's death a la LTT to Rand at Dragonmount.
2) Min’s first viewing of Mat includes a red eagle which if Mat is Aemon he would definitely have.
3) Next is Mat's first spouting of the old tongue. While Rand and Perrin use the war cry of "Manetheren" Mat screams "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!" (Pg 265 ppb, tEotW, The Caemlyn Road) later Moraine explains that Mat's war cry means "for the honor of the red eagle! For the honor of the rose of the sun! For the rose of the sun!" She continues to explain saying that this was the war cry of Manetheren namely its last king, Aemon.
4) The three Ta' veren say (in Shadows Waiting, pg 287 ppb, tEotW) that Mat may be Aemon reborn and then Thom interrupts them then tells them that the dead can be reborn or that they could take a living persons body. This could just be preparation for Rand being LTT reborn but I think it’s more than that.
5) Later in tEotW (The Dark One Stirs, PG 736 ppb) Mat adds more to his war cry. He adds "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar!" This means death holds not fear within my heart! This shows that wherever Mat got his old tongue from he knew he was going to die and was not afraid of it.
Okay enough from tEotW not to switch gears to tDR
6) During the healing Mat shouts "Mia ayende Aes Sedai! Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misian ye! Mia ayende" (Healing, pg 212 ppb, tDR) which Suian translates that "I am free man, Aes Sedai, I am no Aes Sedai meat". Suian says before translates that she states that she thinks for a moment past and present were one.
Mat would have had the same soul in both times otherwise there would never been the slip to the past.
This makes mat someone who was at the last battle of Manetheren, knows the old tongue fluently and freely uses Aemon's war cry as if it were his own. I believe that this points to the King himself and not to some unnamed general.
7) Finally is Mat's first ancient memory. He clearly remembers the final battle of Manetheren, where he commanded the heart guard, what I assume to be Manetheren’s elitist soldiers. So he would have had to be of extremely high rank in order to lead them. Mat remembers giving orders and making decisions during this battle which even a high ranking general would not do if the warder/king was on the battlefield.
Lastly I must address the point that if Mat is Aemon and Aemon was a warder how come Mat dislikes Aes Sedai so. Well there are two reasons for this, (Healing, pg 214 ppb, tDR) Suian states, “Who can know the heart of a man? Not even he himself, I suspect. A man is the easiest animal to put on a leash and the hardest to keep leashed, even if he chooses it himself.” So answer one is maybe even though he was a warder Aemon wasn’t too fond of Aes Sedai himself. Answer two is a question: if your kingdom was destroyed and you, your wife and several thousands of people were killed because Aes Sedai betrayed you wouldn’t you hate the Aes Sedai for it?
Wow that got long fast. To wrap it up shortly I believe that Mat is Aemon and it will take a lot to convince me otherwise. Oops forgot to mention Tuon channeling and Mat marrying her and possibly becoming her warder. But that’s a theory for another time. 
Thanks
Lytjan Morillin
King Aemon’s stable boy reborn
Roonas says: Well ... I like your thought process, and you do have alot worked out here, but the part where he remembers giving orders at the last battle of Manetheren still doesn't sit well with me as proof that he WAS king Aemon. I definitely will have to go back and read that part again, but from what I remember of it - it didn't give me the impression that it was the King himself. So basically I will throw this one up to the masses and let them reason out your proof here.
Comments
First of all I think that your theory is quite well reasoned out, but it just does not have enough evidence to say that he is or is not 'Aemon' reborn.
Mat has loads of dead fellows in his head, and his superior battle tactical and strategical mind could have come any one of these people.
Secondly, when Mat cries 'I am no Aes Sedai meat' it does not reaally make sence seeming as his wife was one.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for the moment and I apologise if I am wrong.
P.S This has even less evidence but I would love it if he were Hawking reborn!!!
In my opinion Mat is not Aemon reborn but he is the heir of the king of Manetheren (this theory could explain the red eagle in Min's viewing) . I have no proof but i'm working on it.
I have always thought that Mat is no one reborn he is mearly a collection of many people. As Moraine said the blood of Manetheren is strong in the Two rivers. Mat's was abit stronger and so it was shown by him spouting old toungue now and again. This is reinforced by Egwene saying that she thought she understood it. This is her blood also but not as strong. The when Mat went through the doorway he was not given the memories but mearly they made them clearer for him so that they became part of his memories.
This makes alot of sense and also means that you don't have to be thinking who he is reborn as it is obvious he has far to many memories at different times for just one person.
Pandora's Box - The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Your reasoning is terrific, but I suspect there's something you're missing (and I'm not sure what).
What makes it even more interesting is...
Perrin is effectively Lord of The Two Rivers now.
One might think that those reborn gravitate to their former place.
And the memory from tDR is what first made me think that. Even before I first came to wotmania.
And Re: Sparrahawk's blackboard post
What you're saying has been disproved many times. The factor that does disprove that he's a collage of many souls is how most of them overlap. He couldn't have been two people at the same time. He asked for his memories to be filled, and they were filled with the memories of other men. Including Aemon who was, imho, there from the start. And since my rereading of tEotW, I've thought Egwene was Aemon's wife reborn(sorry, can't remember her name). Of course, that's not justified, but they're the only two that can speak it(Egwene not so much speak it as partially recognize what is being said). And if it comes down to the old blood of Manetheren, why haven't they heard of someone else doing it(speaking the OT)? They would have heard of someone spouting drivel even if it was in a different villiage in the TR.
My brain has been swiss cheesed like Scott Bakula's on Quantum Leap
was bonded to an Aes Sedai, and would therefore, I think, not have reacted like that to Aes Sedai Healing.
Besides that, I do not believe in all these people being reborn again and again... Not ALL the people in these series have to be someone reborn.
Magnus Alexander corpore parvus erat
Dissenting voice of wotmania
Frightfully stubborn pacifist
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
Jordan making a BIG mistake. I think that he originally meant for Mat to be Aemon, but later thought that an analogy to Odin would work better with the actual hanging and more memories.
If Mat was Aemon, then why is Perrin drawn back to the TR while Mat wants to leave it forever? Wouldnt it make more sense for their positions to be reversed?
To those who keep saying 'not everyone has to be someone reborn' ; the Wheel is circular and therefore everything happens time and time again. With the world dependan on these people, why is it so hard to concieve of all of our friends being someone reborn? Most people in the westlands dont raise a hand in the fighting, so we need real badarses to win a battle against the DO himself. Not that I believe that everyone IS someone reborn, neccisarily, but I dont think that we can discount the possibility that easily.
Also, has anyone ever read that theory on how Mat has a 'thing' for Egwene? That could be explainied here
Gingers: disturbing the dreams of decent folk since the dawn of time.
W.A.S.T.E.
Some of Mat's memories overlap. How can he be only one reborn?
I figured that those memories came from drips and drops that came from people who had gone into one of the twisted doorways...
Reality is not what it used to be.
Mat is ta'varen. Those are usually pretty important people, so wouldn't it make sense that he is reborn? And the other men are probably people born time and time again... you didn't think he was just reborn once, did you? Not everyone in this story is reborn, but the ta'varen definitely are, i believe. They are important people in the world and the really important ones are recycled. Also, as far as him hating Aes Sedai and wanting to leave the two rivers: it makes perfect sense. Just because he is someone else reborn doesn't mean he thinks like that person: they are definitely different people that think differently. Also, the reborn peeps tend to learn from the previous people's mistakes... rand is a good example. Mat, in essense, lived through the betrayal of aemon, and as a result hates aes sedai now as well as wanting to leave manetheren (or the two rivers) because of the hurt he must feel (even though he probably doesn't quite know why) whenever he is there. Isn't the whole point of being reborn so that you can learn from and build off of the memories of the previous life, even if you don't really know it's there?
Quenden Rylben
Gleeman Wannabe
This pre-Fox memory is pretty crucial in his past lives.
The interesting thing is: as he looks at the minor Houses and Towns gathered for the battle they have their own banners.
His bannerman is carrying the Red Eagle not his personal banner. And he says "for the honour of the Red Eagle". No mention of a King or Queen. Why?
Well would you shout out "For the honour of the Red Eagle and me"
Mat was a King. But as the Trolloc Wars was 300 years long, which King I cannot say.
He does say "we must win or die here". But was this at the beginning of the war when the Trollocs were sweeping all before them or at the end when the Amyrlin betrayed Manetheran????
Everybody in the WoT world is somebody reborn, just not necessarily somebody significant. Every person's soul is reborn, but only heroes are tied to the Wheel and live in Tel'Aran'Rhiod and come when called by the Horn of Valere, and are spun out as basically the same people just with different names. Any regular person, say some common blacksmith for example, is someone reborn, and will be reborn after they die, but will not necessarily be a blacksmith (think of Tel'Aran'Rhiod as Valhalla, and only the truly brave can get in). If Mat or Perrin were heroes of the Horn reborn, the Heroes called at Falme would have recognized them and addressed them as who they were, the way they addressed Rand as Lews Therin. Mat may very well be Aemon reborn, but Aemon was not a Hero.
And since the Wheel occasionally adds new Heroes to the bunch in Tel'Aran'Rhiod, I have no doubt that Mat and Perrin will be added now, along with a few others such as Thom, Juilin, etc.
A true WOTism.org original 
LONG LIVE WOTISM PARACHAT!!!!!
Ardente Veritate Incendite Tenebras Mundi
The factor that does disprove that he's a collage of many souls is how most of them overlap.
I think you will find this disproves your theroy, if they overlap how can he be only one person? Also if he was only one person he surly would have all the memories from that person not many different small memories, mainly of battle, from lots of different people.
Pandora's Box - The Ultraviolet Catastrophe
What has been suggested is that Mat is Aemon reborn, he gets a dagger, it erases his memory, he goes to see the foxes, he asks for those holes to be filled, they do, with the memories of other people. So what is being suggested is he is Aemon reborn with the memories of many other men too.
I don't think that the heros not saying hi to Mat and Perrin means much. I mean how much time for chatter is there really? Say hi to the Dragon, the most important man ever! and then get to the killing...
The guide blatently tells you what Ta'varen are. They are spit out by the pattern when the pattern starts to get to out of wack. Ok, so the seals are weakening and the Dark One is touching the world again. Pattern spits out the Dragon, and a couple other Ta'varen to help him. The Ta'varen must fight to put the pattern back on track. I don't have my guide with me, so I can't quote it exactly, but that's pretty much what it says.
And yes, everybody is somebody reborn, it's how WoT world works, it has been stated in the books a few times.
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
Simple question,if mats memories were filled when he was in the doorway with the memories of the generals then how does that make him reborn from all of them. Mat could very likely be reborn from just Aemon as has been said Mat's memories were filled while he in the doorway. The overlapping memories is the result of all those memories being slammed into his head too fast, the memories have nothing to do with his being Reborn from Aemon.
Another thing, I can't remember but did the heroes even notice that Mat was the one who blew the horn. Him being Aemon reborn would explain alot of things.
The shadow has been given a light.
Mat is not Aemon reborn, for the most obvious reason. He has never thought to himself. He never thought, Hey, remember the time I was Aemon. Secondly he was never a warder, because he has thought about the warder concept and at no point did he think to himself, Hey remember that time I was a warder. Granted Jordan has a lot of hidden secrets and he hints at a lot, but not with Mat, Perrin or Rand. You would be hard pressed to find any instance were Mat, Perrin or Rand, from there own PoV, deceive the reader with insinuating comments. One of Mat former lives is of being a general in Manetheren, as well as in many other lands. It right in you face. Mat asked to have "all the whole in my memories filled". Use your knowledge of English, and see the word MY memories, as in Mat's previous lives.
Finally everyone is reborn at some point; hence the idea of having your thread burnt out, as in it ceases to continue on. If you disagree with the idea of everyone being reborn you do not grasp one of the fundamental idea of the RJ series.
I don't know why Mat would have to have memories of Aemon to be Aemon reborn. He could have gotten all of his memories of the other people, but they didn't include Aemons. Rand is the only one who knows who he is reborn as, because of prophesy, and because of the taint on sadin that broke down the barrier between him and LT.
So far there is 0 good evidence in these posts as to why he COULDN'T be Aemon.
Most of the arguments as to why he is not are things like, "Mat isn't the lord of Menatherin, Perrin is", hey if I get reborn, I doubt I will want to try to repeat my last life, I would prob get into an entirely different field. Brings a whole new meaning to the cleche "you only live once"
Just because he has all the memories in his head, whether past lives, memories from others, or a combination thereof, does not of that means he can't be Aemon reborn.
I don't think the proof is all that great that is, but it's better then the counter arguments.
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
I like the theory of Mat being Aemon reborn.
I also had a theory about heroes being reborn but was shot down in flames for it but I still think it might hold some value.
What if the likes of Mat, Perrin, Lan, Nyneave, Egwene, Moiraine and so on (any major players) are heroes reborn in the worlds greatest time of need.
Although no-one has really done enough to claim hero status could it not be that the wheel has designs for the world that must come to past at all costs and what better way to have it than an all star cast represented in the last battle.
please don't flame give something constructive that I may not have thought about.
plant lover
tree hugger
man of many talents
and father of the world
3) Moiraine states that the battle cry, "The ancient warcry of Manetheren, and it's last king." Which to me seems to indicate that everyone would have used this same warcry assuming they were from Manetheren, not just Aemon.
6) I always took Siuan to mean that he was both there as himself, being constained and probably not entirely understanding the circumstanes, hence asking for his freedom and then flashing back and giving orders to his men.
7) I assume you're refering to tDR, Awakening where Mat thinks of the past, in which case I agree with what you say.
Aemon was bonded to his wife and it's unlikely that he ever knew of the fact that the White Tower betrayed him. I'm not sure there are any outside of the White Tower who are aware that hte White Tower held back help. I think Mat's dislike for Aes Sedai is just based on his own experiences with Moiraine and Siuan.
Personally, I don't think there is enough evidence to prove either that Mat is or isn't Aemon reborn.
As a response to some others, none of Mat's memories directly overlap in time, the one that comes closest is him seeing the same man, but the man had aged greatly between the two sights of him, giving time to have been reborn and grown. Also the original theory never really mentioned anything about the memories implanted by the Finns to be related to Mat being Aemon. Since we don't know whether the memories are actually previous lives of Mat's or merely just random memories, they can't really be used to prove or disprove much of anything.
And as someone already mentioned, everyone in WoT is someone reborn.
Jim
Sir Jim
Lord of Minutia™
King of WoT MB Posts™
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
It might just be me, but as I recall it:
Mat was a Generel on the fiald and he was going in after the King. To get him out and diffend the rear while they got him to safety. I might be wrong.. too many anciant battles to keep track of and too few brain cells left to ponder the subject. But, but... It might be worth a go to check that out. I don't have to books with me
~DarLans
as you have lost to many brain cells as evidenced by your post.
I agree with the author. I believe also that Mat is Aemon Reborn. Talmanes post as well as Glamorn's ( even though he disagrees) provide some support for the theory.
The evidence given to support this theory are happenings before Mat had memories replaced!
Would anyone besides King Aemon have the nerve to shout at Aes Sedai the way he did when the healing was taking place. His wife was Aes Sedai and so Aemon would not be fearful of Aes Sedai as the average person is because of ignorance.
When reading Mat's memory of the battle it's obvious he was Aemon and it was the last desperate attempt to hold of the DO armies.
Also in the passage did not the POV ( Aemon) mention something of testing his luck one more time.
Most people assume that Rand Channeling the power and the taint present broke down the barrier and let LTT into his head.
Like wise Mat was always lucky but seemed to get even luckier after taking the daggar from shadar logoth. Could the daggar and the taint of Shadar Logath have had the same or simular effect that channeling and the taint had on Rand?
Allowing his previous life ( Aemon) to have more influence on Mat. eg. increase his luck, memories and the frequency of speaking the old tongue. Remember right after the healing he walks down to where the warders are training and wallops Galad and Gawyn. Mat is speaking to Hammar and Hammar says you speak the old tongue. Mat was unaware at the time that he had been speaking in the old tongue. Previously he spoke the old tongue only in times of great stress, now he speaks it in casual conversations.
I believe as the author of this theory that Mat is indeed Aemon reborn. Aemon and Manetheren were a thorn in the DO arse 300 yrs ago. Mat and his army ( Seanchen?) will be the thorn in the arse this time around
Great theory Mat!
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
I must disagree with this theory for several reasons.
1.) The red eagle in Min's viewing was less the symbol of the king of Manetheren than it was a symbol of the country itself. It was probably only an indication of Mat's strong ties to the past.
2.) The war cry that Mat yelled was the war cry of an army, not just the king.
3.) Mat is not the only one who has some talent with dead languages: in tEotW, Egwene mentions that she can almost understand the Old Tongue, also. Does this mean SHE has been reborn, too?
4.) Mat seems to remember events from the lives of many past soldiers, not just one.
5.) Mat's dislike of Aes Sedai is not at all uncommon, especially in the Two Rivers. It does not necessarily signify a prejudice that has been keep through the ages.
EVERYBODY IN WOT IS SOMEBODY REBORN!!!
EVERYBODY IN WOT IS SOMEBODY REBORN!!!
this has been said in the books and the guide
jebus some thick skulls around here...
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
EVERYBODY IN WOT IS SOMEBODY REBORN!!!
EVERYBODY IN WOT IS SOMEBODY REBORN!!!
this has been said in the books and the guide
jebus some thick skulls around here...
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
1. The amount of Manetheren people who would be making last stands against the forces of the Dark One would be huge, considering at one point every general of Manetheren was overwhelmed. Saying it is obvious that Mat was previously Aemon just because he had a last stand is a fallacy of deductive reasoning. A King would never lead a heart guard, because the heart guard guard’s him/ the queen.
1..Aemon would be less likely to talk down to an Aes Sedai, like Mat did when he was being healed, because he was BONDED to one. Notice how ALL warders are respectful towards ALL Aes Sedai, furthermore, even the lowliest White Cloak will talk down to an Aes Sedai, so the fact that one of the people Mat used to be would also talk down to Aes Sedai proves nothing. Many people do not like Aes Sedai, me included.
And to WINDSOR, you made some point about how all the counter argument are bad, and that just because Mat doesn't have Aemon memories doesn't mean he wasn't Aemon. Although that might be true (the only reason it wouldn't be is due to the nature of Mat's request: He wanted ALL of the wholes filled in his memory. But this is debatable for several reasons so I will not argue this) if you decide that Mat has none of Aemon memories than you have removed /ALL of the proof for him being Aemon. Think about, all the proof support the theory of Mat/Aemon is based on the idea of his displaying/remembering Aemon's traits/life.
I would just like to say that I almost immediatly discredit anyone who says that Mat cant be Aemon reborn
because he has memories from sever other men. It makes sence that Mats memory of the Manetheren
battlefield is who he was in a past life. This make sence because well this is way before he went into
the twisty doorframe ter'angreal and made his bargain with the 'finns (sorry cant remember which ones)
So to anyone who thinks of posting "Mat isn't Aemon because he has lots of memories from all over the place"
please think twice before you make yourself look really stupid.
Lytjan Morillin
some dead guy reborn
What I am trying to say is, He didn't get the memories of Aemon from the Foxes, those were already there. Most of the evidence for this theory comes from the stuff he did pre-fox visit except for point 7. Perhaps he didn't need to get the memories of Aemon from the foxes, and thus, he doesn't recall them in the same way.
If he is Aemon, those memories might be connected to his old blood, kinda like instinct. Talking in the old tongue, shouting ancient battle cries, etc. The other memories, were put in there, and deal mostly with military campaigns, though other stuff too.
Here is what was said exactly with the foxes:
“I have no intention of marrying. And I have no intention of dying, either, whether I am supposed to live again or not. I walk around with holes in my memory, holes in my life, and you stare at me like idiots. If I had my way, I would want those holes filled, but at least answers to my questions might fill some in my future. You have to answer!”
“Done,” one of the men growled, and Mat blinked.
He just says he would want those holes filled, he doesn't say with what, or from whom.
The memories that were put in there, he can recall. The Aemon stuff is a past life, he is cut off from this, but can recall it at certain times (unconsciously and in the heat of battle).
Regarding point 7 in the original theory the Aes Sedai meat line, I don’t know what it means, or why Aemon would say it. We don’t know much about Aemon even if he was married to and bonded to an Aes Sedai. If you look at the evidence in WH however, it looks like Mat is going to do the same thing (marry a channeler, Tuon), and I doubt he will turn a leaf and think the One Power is now the greatest thing since fireworks.
I don’t think the memories he was given by the foxes should even be considered when we are talking whether Mat is Aemon or not.
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
point 7 is not the Aes Sedai meat line, that was just mentioned after the numbered points in the original theory.
Point 7 is about commanding the heart guard. I guess what I said earlier could fit here too. He just asked for the memories to be filled, they could have been filled up with memories from the commander of the heart guard. Who was at that the same battle as Aemon.
Aemon was there pre-foxes but Mat can't really recall them, they are instinctual.
Memories of others added post-foxes and Mat can recall them as if they were his own.
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
you again have helped Mat Cauthon and I prove our point that Mat is indeed Aemon REBORN. Hold onto your shorts Glamorn.
1. The amount of Manetheren people who would be making last stands against the forces of the Dark One would be huge, considering at one point every general of Manetheren was overwhelmed. Saying it is obvious that Mat was previously Aemon just because he had a last stand is a fallacy of deductive reasoning. A King would never lead a heart guard, because the heart guard guard’s him/ the queen.
First of all we know that King Aemon was present at the last stand. Heres were you come in Glamorn... The Heart Guard protects the King/Queen. You are correct and deserve a prize. PRIZE = Because we know that the heart guard was present we KNOW THAT KING AEMON WAS PRESENT. Why not the Queen you ask? Just in case you don't know the hole story the Queen was not present at the last stand.
1..Aemon would be less likely to talk down to an Aes Sedai, like Mat did when he was being healed, because he was BONDED to one. Notice how ALL warders are respectful towards ALL Aes Sedai, furthermore, even the lowliest White Cloak will talk down to an Aes Sedai, so the fact that one of the people Mat used to be would also talk down to Aes Sedai proves nothing. Many people do not like Aes Sedai, me included.
First of all Mat did not talk down to Aes Sedai! He said " I'm a free man, Aes Sedai. I am no Aes Sedai meat" He is not talking down to Aes Sedai.
Also not ALL warders are respectful towards AES Sedai. Lan on serveral ocassions talks poorly about Aes Sedai in Rand's presence. And I'm not sure why I'm even responding to this because I don't think he was being disrespectful in the first place.
The reason even the lowliest Whitecloak will talk down to Aes Sedai is because they are aware of the Aes Sedai's limitations because of the three oaths taken. I'm not sure that they are smartalecs anymore.
And to WINDSOR, you made some point about how all the counter argument are bad, and that just because Mat doesn't have Aemon memories doesn't mean he wasn't Aemon. Although that might be true (the only reason it wouldn't be is due to the nature of Mat's request: He wanted ALL of the wholes filled in his memory. But this is debatable for several reasons so I will not argue this) if you decide that Mat has none of Aemon memories than you have removed /ALL of the proof for him being Aemon. Think about, all the proof support the theory of Mat/Aemon is based on the idea of his displaying/remembering Aemon's traits/life.
First of all he does have Aemon's memories as has been proven here. The proof that he has Aemon's memories are based on memories and events that happened before his deal with the finns. So please don't include the Finns as we are talking afout things that happened BEFORE THE DEAL WITH THE FINNS!
Thanks for your help in this matter again Glamorn . If you have any other good reasons why Mat is not Aemon let us know about them and we'll use them as proof that Mat is Aemon.
Wheres in the world is Vashti?
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
Up there COLUMBO ^
I must have posted while you were still typing yours out.
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
while I was typing Windsor. Your comments were not present when I started.
1 The last stand.
2 Humans out numbered 10 to 1
3 Humans cannot take intense heat much longer.
4 Must win or die here.
5 all the lords and major houses present.
6 Heart guard present.
7 Red Eagle bannerman also present.
8 " Time to tose the dice "
9 POV ( Aemon ) rides into battle with the Heart Guard ( Aemons personal guards) Also rides into battle with the bannerman carrying the Red Eagle banner ( Bannerman always stay by the King ) we also know that Aemon was present at the last stand and that he died in battle. Now come on! how much more do you really need. Come on folks! If Rand was present at a big battle do you really think that the dragon banner would be with Weirimon or is it safe to say it would be with Rand if he was present.
Mat is Aemon Reborn!
Columbo is on the case.
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
I really like the part about the dagger causing the breakdown between Mat and Aemon. To give a little more to it Mat remembers the final stand of Manetheren after he gets Healed of the dagger.
Just one small correction, Mat wasn't actually talking to Hammar, Hammar just overeheard Mat muttering to himself, but doesn't take anything away, Mat does start using the Old Tongue more and I think this explains how he's able to talk to the Finn's. Through the weakening of the barriers, he learns enough of the Old Tongue to talk to the Finns, without realizing it.
Jim
Sir Jim
Lord of Minutia™
King of WoT MB Posts™
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
This is my first post, and sorry I'm at school so I don't have my books on me...
Mat had wierd memories before he went into the twisted door ter'angreal. In EoTW or TGH, I can't remember because like I said I don't have my books on me. There is a whole page during Mat's delerium, from the dagger, where he is having a memory/dream about being some kind of general.
I think the dagger was just a trigger to revive his old memories, of whoever he was reborn from. And EVERYONE was reborn from someone...
So I think this theroy is one of the best I heard about Mat's past life.
He initially had the memories of Aemon... that's been proven. The deal with the finns, however, makes perfect sense... he had his holes filled ENTIRELY. He may be Aemon reborn, but he's also a lot of other people reborn as well. To fill in all of the holes, he would need to get the memories from ALL of those other men.
Also, in one of his memories where he was a general commanding the heart guard, someone said that the king wouldn't be commanding the heart guard protecting him. That is absolutely correct. The problem is, it never says the king during that particular battle is Aemon. Manetheren had a lot of kings making last stands, as i understand it, and there is no evidence to suggest that that particular memory was even during Aemon's lifetime.
This proves/disproves nothing about the current theory that Matt is Aemon.
I cannot waste the time to respond to your comments Quen. Sorry! You are misrepresenting the facts and obviously don't know the books very well. If you would like to be brought up to speed read my comments. I have a tip for you Quen. Read the passages in question and then post your comments. To even suggest that Mat's flashback was not of Manetheren's defeat shows that your comprehension is really poor.
Columbo is on the case!
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
First of all, who cares if Mat is Aemon reborn, obviously it's not as important as the fact that Rand is Lews Therin. Personally, I would be surprised if at some point in the story Mat finds out he's Aemon reborn. I just don't see why RJ would try and emphasize the fact that Mat is someone reborn so much in Book 1 only to make it seem non-existant or not important in later books. My point is, even if Mat is Aemon reborn, appearently it does mean jack now.
P.S. No, I don't think he is anyone-in-particular reborn. Just a feeling I have...
But really people...
someone really tried to say that ALL Warders are nice and respectful to ALL Aes Sedei??? Yah I guess, Except Bridgette, Lan, Rand, and Elyes. Wait a minute that is EVERY WARDER that have been given any real amount book time, or a segment from thier POV. Think about the Asha 'man that bonded his wife to know she was alright. Think she was always repectful and subservent to him??? Come on Guys... Not to get sexist, but if you are married you know that Bond or no bond, title and powers or no title and powers, you would not always be nice and kind and repectful of your wife and her friends. Arguements happen.
2. Someone said that the king didn't know that he had been betrayed. I suppose you did reread the story before you threw in your 2 cents (actual worth .01 cent) the story goes that the king had to hold for help for three days, but after holding against impossible odds for 10 days "...the king knew the bitter taste of betrayal." And of course he could hold no more so he destroys the bridges and send the messangers to home to tell people to go. >
3. Who cares what his wife the Ais Sedei says or thinks, he is the king. Of course he probibly loved her, and listened to her, but when the (Censored) hit the fan, his word went. The Trolloc wars seem like the (Censored) hitting the fan.
OK one final thing to add... Who are Tar Valon Aei Sedei ALWAYS wanting to control, esspecially in the trolloc wars. Kings, Queens and Rulers. We know this. Do they care about controling common soldiers, Generals, or Captains of the Heart Guard??? No Forsaken and Darkfriends are worried about the control of these "lower" types. So, if Mat had a flash to a past life and started Screaming in the old toungue when his dagger was removed "I AM A FREE MAN AES SEDEI!!" I am more in tune to believe that he was a king. Our tar Valon Friends were much, much, much more likely to attempt to control a king than any member of army, or even a lord.
This doesn't prove that Mat is or is not the king reborn, it is just I have been reading some of these posts wishing I had been hitting myslef with a rock since it would have been less painful.
BORDERLANDER
TAIM WAS NEVER DEMANDRED
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer
most of the posts here just muddle things up. I still don't think a lot of people understand that EVERYBODY is somebody reborn yet.
Let me borrow that rock when your done!
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
Two thumbs up. I was suspecting something like this on my own, and the theory and some of these posts here (esp. from Columbo) confirm that in my mind. And to answer a couple of the objections:
1. "If Mat was Aemon, then why is Perrin drawn back to the TR while Mat wants to leave it forever? Wouldnt it make more sense for their positions to be reversed? "
The story of Mat Cauthon is the story of him running away from destiny, but destiny catching him anyway. Everything he runs the hardest from comes true for him. He can't stand noblewomen? Well, he's going to marry a queen. He doesn't want responsibility? Well, now he's a bigshot general. In my eyes, the fact that Mat wanted to get away from the Two Rivers and never come back actually suggests that he DOES have some karmic connection to the place, something he can't escape.
2. "The battle in which Mat saw himself leading the forces of Manetheren could have been another battle; it didn't have to be the last stand at Emond's Field."
This is technically true, but you're ignoring the fact that this is a NOVEL, and not just brute facts. Even stories as long and detailed as the WOT can only give us so much info, and the writer has to decide what's important to tell us and what isn't. On that basis, I think it's highly likely that the two accounts we get of battles involving ancient Manetheren are accounts of the same battle, given from two different persepctives so that perceptive readers could make the connection.
3. "Matt was leading the honor guard, so must have been the guard captain, not the king."
That's a silly one. The guard goes where the king goes, right? And if the king charges into battle, the guard follows him into battle. The king leads the honor guard when he's around; the guard captain follows him along with everyone else.
Florian
I just finished reading that great theory of yours on Fain. I never gave much thought on Mat being Aemon reborn. You've sold me 100%. After reading your comments I have no doubt Mat is Aemon Reborn. Also someone mentioned that Rand was LTT and important but that who Mat was in previous life didn't matter. How can anyone say Mat is insignificant in this series. He is part of the big Three of Rand, Perrin and Mat. Mat being Aemon reborn is significant if you ask me. Again great work Columbo! I can't wait to here from you agian. Columbo you have a great understanding of the series. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
=
So if Mat was Aemon, then who was his wife (can't remember her name).
She was an Aes Sedai - the Amrylin was jealous of her powers.
A hint: She smiled at him "Thank you Mat". Looking up at her, he cleared his throat, stood up........."
Walks off singing softly "Jessies been a friend. Yeah I know he's been a good friend of mine.........."
Don't flame me too hard
when I read EotW a second time.
After all, he does have a thing for her.
Gingers: disturbing the dreams of decent folk since the dawn of time.
W.A.S.T.E.
The reason that he isn't Aemon is because he remembers advising himHe tells Aemon not to go but he says that any chance no matter how small has to be taken. Unless i am remembering his advice to someone else this is the definitive point
We know that Rand is LTT reborn, but he also saw visions through the eyes of his Aiel ancestors, who were not related to LTT at all.
Therefore: Why can't Mat have Aemon's soul, but also a collection of other people's memories bestowed on him by the Eelfin? Perhaps he doesn't remember being Aemon because Aemon is his main soul... the main person he was reborn from... while all the other memories are just fragments from outside meddling with his mind.
I also think it would be cool if he was Artur Hawkwing (especially because of his destiny with the Seanchan), but I believe he had a memory of fighting Hawkwing in battle.
As to Perrin bringing back Manetheren: The Wheel weaves as the Wheel will. Perhaps that's his destiny for this lifetime, while Mat/Aemon has a different destiny. Or maybe we're all predicting something that won't happen... maybe Perrin won't raise Manetheren at all.
Where is this qoute of yours from. If it does exist please let me know page # and book. I would like to investigate you definitive point. If you do not respond I will take it to mean you are making this up.
Columbo is on the case.
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
Mat and Egwene sitting in a tree K I S ing Maybe?
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
More a question really, but how many times would Mat have to have been reborn in the last 2000 years to have all these different memories he got from the foxes? Or are they the memories of other turnings of the wheel as well? (I am guessing on the years part, not bothing to look up when Manetheren fell)
I guess what I am driving at is how do we know that the memories the foxes gave him are his past lives, or just the lives of other men?
"Why on earth would anybody want to kidnap a groundhog?"
"I can think of a few reasons, the pervert!"
I too remember Mat giving the advice to the king as his right hand man. Mat has most of his memories from Manetheren because during the Trolloc wars they were the leading army. He was never a king he was always a general loyal to a king. I think Perrin is Aemon reborn. Egwene is not Aemon's wife however or she would not be so in love with Gwayne. All of the memories in Mat's head are his own. None of them over lap in a time sense. All of the memories he has get mixed up because there are so many memories.
Like someone posted, LTT is NOT related to the Aiel, but Rand sees a lot of things from is ancestors in Rhuidean. What if one of Rand's Aiel ancestors was at the service of LTT in the AOL? then could Rand remember a conversation a conversation he had with himself?
My point is, you are someone reborn, but you have ancestors either, so Mat's memory was probably fill with is ancestors' memory, the way Rand saw things throught is ancestors eyes in the Ter'Angreal. He could be a direct descendant of one of Aemon's advisor, and still be Aemon reborn.
Are you serious? Are you serious? I don't think so. What I think is your just trying to stir things up here. I will not get sucked in by your attempts. Your comments hold no water with me! Your so far off the mark that I can't help you. Although something tells me your just trying to start trouble here with your dumb comments.
I will not respond to you. Stop trying to start something! If you want to cause trouble go somewhere else!
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
This time I am mostly in agreement with you. See, I ain't so bad.
The mere fact that he has undiluted genetic material from the survivors of Manetheren should have no legitimate bearing on his mind, unless we're talking genetic memories here which is a pile of ****. So the stuff in his mind would have to come from the soul, a soul that is reincarnated from some other life.
Now Mat's memories from the Finns are implanted and most likely are sourced from the experiences they take as price for their granting of wishes. In them, Mat knows he's a different person. When he spouted the Old Tongue in Eye and the Great Hunt, that appeared to come from his own mind. Given that Perrin, who is also Manetheren blood, doesn't get up to such things, takes away from the Old Blood theory.
Therefore we have to conclude that the soul that is now Master Matrim Cauthon was once a resident of Manetheren. Now considering what lines he came up with, that sould had to be very high up, and that survived to the last stand. That narrows it to a few soldiers and Aemon. QED, who cares about soldiers.
On the negative side, I read in the comments to one of the theories posted this year that someone else had come up with the same idea and that RJ himself had admitted that it was a red herring. I'll try and find that comment and send you to it.
About what Mat screamed in the Old Tongue in Tar Valon. He was slowly being possessed by the hatred of Shadar Logoth. While he shouted with the knowledge of the reincarnated soul, he was shouting currently. I don't think that any soldier of Manetheren would have used those words.
Dunno, my 2c.
the Harvester of Mankind
the Thief of Years
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Back when Moiraine had first come into the story, and had told the whole tale of Manetharen, I could swear that she mentioned that in the final battle (where the darkfriends, trollocs, etc were lined up in thousands of thousands) King Aemon led the last charge, but I don't recall her specifying the titles of the various guards, which still leaves the possibility that the theory is true.
The one where he advised a King not to take this path was against another nation, not the Trollocs
I think it was the song where Asmodean/Natael was singing in TSR and Mat thought how inaccurate the song was. Something about the opposing King taking pity on the valiant Mantheran Guards.
Anyway he ended up in a river with 3 0r 4 arrows in him (about to become an ex-parrot). Mat remembers the opposing King (who slaughtered the Manetheran guards) in another memory, older and getting killed by a young farmer (or something like that)
So it wasn't Aemon
Will he save her from the bootmaker?
Mat gives, as Talmanes says, is agianst an evil king guy. I'd get the place in tSH where the quote is located but I'm to lazy. I was getting very frusterated that after a bunch of posts, and one guy agreeing, nobody corrected it. As much as I usually dislike Columbos stupid people bashing I can honestly say, in this post, that I agree whole heartedly. I am not sold on Mat's being Aemon, I have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't be sold on anything anymore in WoT (RJ throws far too many curveballs), but I am now thinking of this possibility.
Another thought I would like to throw in is this, Have we ever been given a description of Aemon? I ask this because it seems that people reborn have the same basic body type, ie, LTT and Rand are very tall, handsome; Birgette always has the gold braid; gadal Cain always stumpy and ugly. This is, of course, not definative evidence either way but it might give some indication.
I would go about correcting other peoples idiot mistakes, but I havn't the time nor the inclination.
Junius Maltby Lives!
Forget about the Foxes! The Foxes and the memories they gave Mat have no bearing on this. We are talking pre Foxes so stop with the Foxes and the memories Mat was given!
Columbo is on the case!
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
Remeber well my prediction. Mat is King Aemon reborn and will marry Egwene Al'vere! I will leave you with one of many not so obvious hints.
" It seems you care for them. One of them, at least, I suppose it is. I'am sorry, Mat Cauthon. "
If you are aware of this passage good, if you are not you'll have to wait for more from Columbo. Maybe another Theory on the obvious that's not.
Columbo is on the case!
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
I agree with it totally. What I'm replying to is the Egwene/Mat thing....Columbo, I've agreed with u up to this point. But the quote u gave was not from someone with great insight into the interractions between characters. At this point, Mat was upset he had let his friends down, not upset because he was in love with any one of them. After all, that's one of Mat's traits. Hard to pin down, but very loyal, and never willing to break his word. Aside from that, of course, is that Mat will marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons. It's in the prophecies of the 'finns--and it's in his destiny. I know Jordan often gives ambiguous prophecies that aren't fulfiled the way we anticipate, but this is pretty cut and dry. And unless Mat turns Aiel, I doubt he'll be having 2 wives.
And of course, this is all completely off topic, but those kind of ramblings are the ones I'm best at
Memnoch Sedai
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Sax is life....the rest is just details
Anybody ever notice, that (mat) CAUTHON looks suspiciously like al CAar al THOriN ???
might be too simple for RJ but hey u all made this discussion so complicated maybe its time for a little simplicity.
By the way I too remember the scene where Mat advises Aemon in one of his memories.
The Sliph
[I just picked this name because all good ones were taken]
I like the way you think. I'am 100% positive that Mat is Aemon reborn. Mat marrying Egwene is just a hunch, though I will stick with it. I believe also that Mat will marry Tuon. Will it last?
Columbo is on the case!
'Omne ignotum pro magnifico'
Well, boys and girls, I suppose we can ignore the random finn memories Mat was given as proof for or against this theory now, seeing as RJ has explained in Glimmers where they really came from. Apparently the memories are from people who actually went into the finn doorways before, and the reason that so many are from daring soldiers and womanizers is that you'd have to be a pretty daring kind of guy to go into one of those doorways. Columbo was right, you have to look at what was happening before he went into those finn doorways.
Incidentally, Columbo, why do you think that Mat will get with Egwene when Mat is destined to marry the daughter of the Nine Moons and Egwene and Gawyn are madly in love with each other? Also, how would Mat become Tuon's Warder when she can't channel? Seeing as she's Seanchan, if she could channel, wouldn't she already be a damane or a sul'dam by now?
Luck is a horse to ride like any other
StaffWielder@wotmania.com
If I remeber correctly Tuon could have become a Sul'dam but because of her position as DotNM she did not. I may be mistaken but I seem to remeber her taking up an Adam's bracelet somewere in Winter's Heart.
Ipkin Syld
Taint Crazy Shienarian
Slayer of renegade
Whitecloaks
Warder to a Green
Ipkin Styld
Channeling Borderlander
Slayer of renegade Whitecloaks
Kicker of major Trolloc Rear-end
Ok, like dummy I let someone borrow tEotW and they moved pretty fast so now I don't have my reference. But the question I have is didn't the wife(Queen) of Aemon when she found out that Aemon was dead took in so much of the One Power that it killed the Trollocs and herself?
And if so then I think that Tuon being able to become a sul`dam will play into the cards. I also think it will play a role into the down fall of the Seanchan empire and the rise of King Mat and Queen Tuon.
"Every man dies not every man really lives." 
I personally think that ,even though this may bee kindof off topic for this theory, Tam al'Thor is a direct decendant of King Aemon. King Aemon's kinal name is al Thorin and over years of use it could have easily been shortened to al'Thor
Ipkin Styld
Channeling Borderlander
Slayer of Whitecloaks
Ipkin Styld
Channeling Borderlander
Slayer of renegade Whitecloaks
Kicker of major Trolloc Rear-end
I would say that's one of many people Mat has been. Notice how his accent changes frequently when speaking in the old tongue to Birgette. Also his skill with battles is largely based in having been in such an enormous number of them, in just about every position from soldier to general. He mentions remembering numerous deaths in battle so it seems pretty clear he has the memories of many men. Is it such a stretch that these are all his past lives?
umm its been proven and stated repeatedly that all the memories mat has after going through the twisty stone doorway and makeing the deal with the finns has no affect on this theory as all the evidence is pre-doorway and in glimmers (so ive noted from comments on this very theory, i havent finished it myself so i cant say exactly) the origin of mats doorway memories is explained.
Ipkin Styld
Channeling Borderlander
Slayer of renegade Whitecloaks
Kicker of major Trolloc Rear-end
Maybe Aemon was his wife's Warder, who was an Aes Sedai. (Sorry if this has been said already, but I'm too lazy to see if it has been.)
I always believed that Mat was king Aemon or atleast some hero re-born. Theres so much information that supposedly backs this up. But he's not. He's not a reborn hero either. Why do i say this? Becasue Jordan said so himself. Jordan told us that his head got filled with others' memories. Perhaps some of Aemon's memories are now in mat's head.
Lord of the Morning
Is a descendant of King Aemon. Matrim Cauthon may or may not be reborn of anyone special, but from day one, the suggestion is that the memories are carried in the blood, not by rebirth. Moiraine or Lan, one, would have made more of a hint than that as to any business of being someone important reborn otherwise.
Again, I say that this doesn't mean Mat ISN'T reborn of Aemon, but other issues make it seem less likely.
Perrin is sure to become the first Lord of the New Manetheren. I still submit that this will be a result of his saving Morgase from the Shaido while riding under the Red Eagle. She will award him the western portion of the realm, which she admits she has no true control over. The Red Eagle banner in the viewing of Mat dovetails with his OT warcry and such, marking him as very strongly of the old blood, which proves nothing about past lives. It was necessary to establish the power of the old blood to strengthen the prophecy of the Dragon that he would be raised of the old blood. Rand is NOT of Manetheren blood by any means, so it would have been wrong to have him spitting out OT and Manetheren war cries, so it had to be Mat. Why not Perrin? Well, he has his thing with being the Wolfbrother, so to balance the ta'veren business Mat gets the strong ties to the old blood.
And again I say that does nothing to make him King Aemon returned. Or not.
Agreed, his memories of ancient battle suggest he is someone reborn from that time, since that occurred prior to his having hundreds of other random memories added to fill the holes in his own. Oh, and on that thought, he couldn't have been all of those different people reborn whose memories he has been given. He remembers being on both sides of the same battle in one case.
Call me Tim
did you even read the other comments before adding your own? i dont mean to sound really harsh but well this has been discussed. just because mat has a bunch of other guys memories in his head doesnt mean that he cant be aemon reborn. they arnt mutually exclusive
Ipkin Styld
Channeling Borderlander
Slayer of renegade Whitecloaks
Kicker of major Trolloc Rear-end
mat remembers giving king aemon advise on not taking the guy they were battling seriously. as far as we know, a person cannot be two souls at once unless twisted by the shadow like luc/isam. but even they have to share the body. theyre are never present at the same time...
I don't fail. I succeed in finding what doesn't work.
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I knew for a long time that Mat was someone reborn but I couldn't figure out who. Thanx for informing me.
In one of the books Mat had a flash back of dancing with a high ranking Sea Folk woman in a court in Manetheren. Has anyone else noticed that most of the flashbacks Mat has that he remembers have alot to do with Manetheren?
Halt here! Now! By the order of the Lord Dragon! Else he channel your head into your belly and feed you your own feet for breakfast!
-Mat Cauthon
In one of his interviews (I don't remember which, sorry) RJ said that the best examples of rebirth were Birgitte and Mat.... I don't know whether that means he is Aemon or not (I personally believe he is one of the Manetheran generals).
In your theory, you state that the rose of the sun was manetherans kings battle cry, but if im not mistaken, wasnt it not his battle cry, but his title. There for mat would be saying "for the honor of me" if he were that king, and thats stupid. If he is someone reborn, i think he is the same guy he is now, leader of the band of the red hand. that would explain his ties to manetheran and his crie For the honor of the rose of the sun! For the rose of the sun becuase he would be defending the rose of the sun.
I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I recall that "The Rose of the Sun" is another name for Ellisande (probobly spelled wrong, the queen of Manetheren) It would make sence that the king would be screaming "for the honor of the queen (and country by implication)"
Ipkin Styld
Channeling Borderlander
Slayer of renegade Whitecloaks
Kicker of major Trolloc Rear-end
Mat can't be the reincarnation of King Aemon, because, although he remembers being at the last battle for Manetheren, it's as Aemon's guard. He's not any one person reincarnated, but has simply appropriated the memories of various generals from different times in the past- I believe RJ said this explicitly (go to wot FAQ, at linuxmafia.org/Jordan and click on the question about Mat's memories, I think they quote RJ there)
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
Janis Joplin 
I do believe that Matt is Aemon reborn, the evidence for it good and the evidence agaist is (IMHO) too weak.
The argument that Matt couldn't be Aemon because he remembered leading the King's Guard is erroneous. As was stated earlier, he lead the honor guard, not the King's guard. In a country ruled by a Queen who's Aes Sedai and a King who's a Warder, It would make sense that 1) the Queen would be the dominant ruler, (as in modern Andor) and 2)the King would lead the Honor Guard. Also, I beleve one of Matt's old tongue rants included "Forward the Heart Guard", which may be a reference to the Honor Guard that Aemon would logically lead.
this sounds like a good theroy but it isnt true at all. look here RJ: Mat's memories are NOT from his ancestors. He said [he wanted] to have the holes in his head filled but he did not specify exactly what he wanted them filled with and so he received scraps and bits and pieces of memories stolen from other men.
and this RJ: No, Mat's "old" memories are not from his past lives at all. The "sickness" he got from the Shadar Logoth dagger resulted in holes in his memory. He found whole stretches of his life that seemed to be missing. When he passed through the "doorframe" ter'angreal in Rhuidean, one of the things he said - not knowing that the rules here were different than in the other ter'angreal he had used - was that he wanted the holes in his memory filled up, meaning that he wanted to recover his own memories. In this place, however, it was not a matter of asking questions and receiving answers, but of striking bargains for what you want. What he received for that particular demand was memories gathered by the people on that side of the ter'angreal, memories from many men, all long dead, from many cultures. And since not everyone passing by has the nerve to journey through a ter'angreal to some other world, the memories he receieved were those of adventurers and soldiers and men of daring.
"and in the book The Shadow RisingWhen Jasin Natael is singing a song about a battle at a river and how the enemy of Manetheren had mercy on the defeated Manetherenites, . Mat remembers himself, as the king's advisor, being killed by that foe's treachery; and then he remembers himself, somebody else, seeing that foe, older and grayer, being killed in another battle somewhere else. [TSR: 37, Imre Stand, 424-425]. "(Don Harlow, Joe Shaw, Pam Korda, Leigh Butler]
So it's very doubtful that Mat was Aemon, or any other king of Manetheren.
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to Mith
he gets his accents from the people he has memories of. these are not his past lives just memories cramed into his head to fill in the holes.
to Pinn Sedai
Pay attention to the books when you read them, try rereading EotW again. (OMG)
to Reckened_it
perhaps but some of these memories were befor he went into the doorway, so NO
to Call me Tim
"He remembers being on both sides of the same battle in one case"
Yes i was going to point this out also, i wondered if anyone was going to memtion that, cough Columbo cough
to Lodlom
well Rand doesnt exactly have two souls, but he has 2 personalities, maybe 3, living in the same body without being twisted by the DO
to Two Moons
this could also prove that he was the King and was reborn where he died
to Ein
It was a reference to the queen, and if the queen was well loved by the people it would make sense for them to fight for her, but if your theory was correct, IT IS A SOLIDERS JOB TO FIGHT FOR HIS KING
to Lady Laurita the Tairen
BAHH these memories came befor he went through the doorway so you point is very very MOOT
to Aiglosreforged
OHHH good point, thumbs up.
to The Dragon Bloody Reborn
perhaps, but remember this is just after he got his "memories" and this could also be taken as one of his first memories since he was just thinking about it and was not under much stress and it has already been established that memories for a past life come only during times of high stress.
There can be only one, may it be
I'm going to take the time to give the friggin facts that nobody else is bothering with, and hopefully save others from putting up with the same BS that's given on both sides.
The story of Aemon
(tEotW, p 131-135)
> full name was Aemon al Caar al Thorin (bravest man)
> Eldrene ay Ellan ay Carlan was his Queen (fairest woman)
> Eldrene was known as the Rose of the Sun
> banner of Manetheren was the Red Eagle
> the men of Maneteren were on the fields of Bekkar when they heard of the Trolloc attack on their homeland. They arrived with backs to Tarendrelle to meet the Trollocs
> Aemon sent out messengers for aid; it was to come in three days
> fought for ten days, when at last Aemon "knew the bitter taste of betrayal"
> Aemon crossed the Tarendrelle and destroyed the bridges behind him, and warned his people to flee
> from the city, Eldrene organized the flight of her people into the forests and mountains
> in the Mountains, Eldrene felt Aemon die, then, heartbroken, she drew on the One Power and destroyed the remainder Trollocs as well as herself
Mat's Old Blood
> "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!" means "For the honor of the Red Eagle! For the honor of the Rose of the Sun! The Rose of the Sun!"
> "Carai an Caladazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande! Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar! Al Ellisande!" which means "For the honor of the Red Eagle! For the honor of the Rose of Sun! For the Rose of the Sun! Death holds not fear within my heart! The Rose of the Sun!"
> "Muad'drin tia dar allende caba'drin rhadiem! Lost Valdar Cuebiyari! Los! Carai an Caldazar! Al Caldazar!"
> "Mia ayende, Aes Sedai! Caballein misain ye! Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye! Mia ayende!" which translates to "Release me, Aes Sedai! I am a free man! I am no Aes Sedai meat! Release me!"
> Memory: He watches "pennants and banners of towns and cities and minor Houses" and soldiers fighting Trollocs. "He was known as a gambler; it was time to toss the dice." Bannerman rode beside him, "the Red Eagle banner flapping over his head."
> "The ancient warcry of Manetheren, and the warcry of its last king. Eldrene was called the Rose of the Sun. The blood of Arad's line is still strong in the Two Rivers. The Old Blood still sings."
Memory of "Advising Aemon"
(tSR, p 610-611)
> An old song; of Manetheren, oddly enough, and war before the Trolloc Wars.
> Villainous Aedomon led the Saferi down on unsuspecting Manetheren, pillaging and burning, driving all before them until KING BUIRYN [not Aemon!] gathered Manetheren's strength, and the men of Manetheren met the Saferi at Midean's Ford, holding, though heavily outnumbered, through three days of unrelenting battle, while the river ran red and vultures blackened the sky. On the third day, numbers dwindling, hope fading, Buiryn and his men fought their way across the ford in a desperate sortie, driving deep into Aedomon himself. But forces too great to overpower swept in around them, trapping them, driving them ever in on themselves. Surrounding their king and the Red Eagle banner, they fought on, refusing surrender even when their doom became clear.
> ...courage touched even Aedomon's heart, and how at last he allowed the remnant to go free, turning his army back to Safer in honor of them.
> [Mat] remembered counselling BUIRYN [again, NOT AEMON!] not to accept the offer, being told in return that the smallest chance was better than none. Aedomon, GLOSSY BLACK BEARD hanging below the steel mesh that veiled his face, drew his spearmen back, waited until they were strung out and nearly to the ford before the hidden archers rose and the cavalry charged in.
> His last memory at the ford was trying to keep his feet, waist deep in the river with three arrows in him, bu there was something later, a fragment. Seeing Aedomon, GRAY-BEARDED [so obviously many years have passed] now, go down in a sharp fight in a forest, toppling from his rearing horse, the spear in his back put there by an unarmored, beardless boy.
Mat's memories after Rhuidean
(various interviews with Robert Jordan)
> [question] You stated in another interview that Mat's memories came from adventurers who traveled through the ter'angreal. However several of Mat's memories end with the adventurer dying. Since adventurers probably didn't go through the ter'angreal after they died, how could the 'finns have obtained these memories? [answer] A good question. I was wondering when someone would ask that. I expected it as soon as Mat started revealing those old memories. At least a partial answer will be coming up in the next main sequence book, so I guess you could say this is a RAFO. But I will say that if I said those adventurers all entered through the two ter'angreal, I misspoke. A good many entered through the Tower of Ghenjei, which was more widely known in earlier years, if never exactly a household name.
> [question] If Mat only has memories from around the Trolloc wars how does he know how to use it? [answer] Mat does not have memories only from the trolloc wars. Mat's memories extend all the way into the time of Artur Hawkwing 1000 years later.
> [question] What exactly are Mats memories, are they from his ancestors, as they all seem to be connected to Manetheren?? [answer] Mat's memories are NOT from his ancestors. He said "I want to have the holes in [my] head filled" but he did not specify exactly what he wanted them filled with and so he received scraps and bits and pieces of memories stolen from other men.
> [question] Are all of Mat's memories from his past lives? [answer] No, Mat's "old" memories are not from his past lives at all. The "sickness" he got from the Shadar Logoth dagger resulted in holes in his memory. He found whole stretches of his life that seemed to be missing. When he passed through the "doorframe" ter'angreal in Rhuidean, one of the things he said - not knowing that the rules here were different than in the other ter'angreal he had used - was that he wanted the holes in his memory filled up, meaning that he wanted to recover his own memories. In this place, however, it was not a matter of asking questions and receiving answers, but of striking bargains for what you want. What he received for that particular demand was memories gathered by the people on that side of the ter'angreal, memories from many men, all long dead, from many cultures. And since not everyone passing by has the nerve to journey through a ter'angreal to some other world, the memories he receieved were those of adventurers and soldiers and men of daring.
> "There is no mention of Mat having memories of being two different people at the same time. A common misconception is that the sequence of memories described above in [TSR: 37, Imre Stand, 424-425] indicates that Mat has memories of being two different people in the same battle. This is not the case! What is actually going on is that these are two different guys, at different times. In the earlier memory, Mat is an advisor to a king, and is killed through the treachery of the enemy. In the later memory, Mat recalls seeing that same enemy, then older and grayer, die in another battle someplace else. There is enough time between the two incidents for the enemy to age considerably, and thus obviously could not have taken place in the same battle." -- 2.1.5 Don Harlow, Joe Shaw, Pam Korda, Leigh Butler
> “I have no intention of marrying. And I have no intention of dying, either, whether I am supposed to live again or not. I walk around with holes in my memory, holes in my life, and you stare at me like idiots. If I had my way, I would want those holes filled, but at least answers to my questions might fill some in my future. You have to answer--!”
(yes, I know at least one of these is a reprint)
a)"No aes sedai meat..." As others have said, why would he say this when his wife was Aes Sedai (or at least a strong channeler, as I don't think they ever actually confirm that she was tower)
b)King, no, GENERAL, yes. Who commands the Queens guards, the Companions, or the Defenders? Morgase, the King of Illian, the High Lords? NO, it's Gareth Bryn, etc.
Mat is maybe the top military, uh, dude, of Manetheren reborn, but not the king.
C (My main point, really)) "Al Ellisande"- "For Me"?? Why would Mat shout that if HE was Aemon? It's the cry of aemon's troops FOR the king, not of the king itself (Unless he was full of himself, which he certainly doesn't seem to have been)
That's all. Ok, now you can flame me
on page 265 of tEotW mat shouts
"Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Essisande!"
In then looking at page 787 in the glossary of the same book we find the explanation of each of these phrases
"Carai an Caldazar"
which means "for the honor of the red eagle"
it goes on to say it is the ancient battle cry of Manetheren
"Carai an Ellisande"
which means "for the honor of the Rose of the Sun"
it goes on to say it was the battle cry of the last king of manetheren.
mat's battle cry was not that of a common manetheren soldier
Aemon's queen, Eldrene was and Aes Sedai, in other words a channeler and Tuon also can channel.....
Alea iacta est
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Mat notices that his memories do not include any childhood, which means that they were implanted and not from his own reincarnations.
if he wasn't Aemon reborn then he wouldn't use Aemons war cry as his own
also Aemon's wife was known as the Rose of the sun now if he was only the heir to the throne i doubt that he would use Aemons personal war cry.
in his first memory he remembers commanding the heart guard now if he wasn't Aemon himself then at least he would have been either a very high ranking/senior officer or a member of the royal family. but then if you think about it if he was a member of the royal family and a male then it would make sense for him to be at another part of the battle line so to spread the royal presence throughout the army to boost moral
Didn't Mat have a memory at some time (When Asmodean was telling his story in the waste I think) about talking to Aemon?
Let me start by saying i just spent the last half hour reading every single bloody post...bloody and ashes to you freaking all.
that being said before reading any of this i kinda thnought he was Aemon reborn, and looking up, most of the things that are against it are either meaningless, are misquoted or are irrelavent( Most of the RJ quotes against it are refering to memories filled in by Ellfin. and RJ did say that they wernt from his ANCESTORS. a reincarnation and an ancestor is NOT the same thing.)
next while there is considerable circumstantial evidence that he could be, and i do think he is, there is no solid proof that he is. of course absense of proof isnt proof of absense as the saying goes, but with so many clues that he could be, and none at all NONE that say he isnt, its hard not to believe...
and its not really a connection but...
thier prospective wives, Tuon and Eldrene are known respectively as The Daughter of the nine moons and the Rose of the sun.
Mat and Aemon have interesting Contrasts and similarites
Both are known as great leaders.
One of the most striking reason i always suspected it was mats quotes, the quotes he used well BEFORE the Ellfin or Alfenn, and i think, please dont quote me on this, just BEFORE getting the dagger, which would eliminate any link there, he first shouted this as they were driven into Shadar Logoth by trollocs in eye of the world (Chpt 1
"Carai an Caladazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande! Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar! Al Ellisande!"
"For the honor of the Red Eagle! For the honor of the Rose of Sun! For the Rose of the Sun! Death holds not fear within my heart! The Rose of the Sun!"
now where would such a phrase come from if not a past life of some sort, it sounds, from deductive reasoning that it was a shout of a man going into battle to die.
when Moiraine explains what it meant and who it was linked to that narrowed it down, in all likely hood, to the last stand of King Aemon, and likely the last fateful charge of the King and his Honor Guard, Which honestly speaking could mean a good number of men. But taking a bit of licence, just a bit, what other men have been mentioned of that battle other than Aemon, not conclusive proof, but definately a decent point. and given the lack of proof against it that is why i always thought Mat was Aemon reborn.
An interesting thought though, it had been hundreds of years between Aemon and Mat, well know heros( like Birgitte) had been woven in and out for generations without memories of past lives, it does stand to reason that Aemons actions that day earned him a place in Tel'aran'rhiod, the WoT Equivilant of Norse Valhalla. if it did, whose to say he hadnt been reborn in other bodies between him and Mat and some memories, such as the dislike of Aes Sedai could have stemmed from those lives not Aemon's. Again they are not Ancestors but the same soul rewoven through the threads of time..just a thought...
on the topic of mat having memories of talking to Aemon..even if he did have them, which im not really sure, the gaps in his memories could have been filled by people who knew Aemon, its not impossible is it? but then im trying to remember just how far back his memories went. maybe atleast lol
your forgetting that in combat even low ranking solders give orders just to ppl only lower in rank than them so it is possible that Mat is just a middling general in that first memory b4 he went to the waste and got stuffed w/ memories.
I may be crazy but im still more---- OHH SHINY PENNY!
Fear the ninja smiley
ohhh pretty fire..Most not touch....OUCH IT BURNS!
Jahar Narishma 
DaRkNiGhT 
Wolfbrother to Shadowkiller 
is so good
Well...